OurVoices, the podcast by OurPath, Inc., is a resource for Straight Partners and Partners of Trans People as we navigate the tremendous life changes that accompany the discovery that our spouses or partners are LGBT+. Closets impact entire families. Telling our own stories as Straight Partners or Partners of Trans People is a powerful catalyst for healing, growth and discovering our own paths toward an authentic life post disclosure or discovery. Host Kristin Kalbli interviews Straight Partn ...
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S7 Ep 13: A Bisexual Husband's Disclosure and a Straight Wife's Decision to Stay with Irina Miller
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1:03:16Irina’s discovery of her husband’s sexuality started from accidentally finding a social media account in a locked folder on his phone. Not thinking much of it at first, she enquired him about it, and he burst into tears and said, “I think I am bisexual”. He then shared the account and the rest of his private folder – the contents of which clearly i…
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S7 Ep 12: The Minwalla Model of Deceptive Sexuality and Trauma Treatment
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45:05Today's episode features a presentation of the Minwalla Model of Deceptive Sexuality and Complex Trauma Treatment. In 2006, Dr. Omar Minwalla began to study the signs of Complex Trauma related stress in people whose spouses had committed infidelity. Minwalla’s powerful educational metaphor, the “Secret Sexual Basement”, has made the personal, relat…
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S7 Ep 11: The Time to Pay It Forward is Now with David Harte
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44:52Not only was OurPath Volunteer David Harte surprised to learn his wife was a lesbian, he was surprised that her family already knew she was. “One of her friends told me [my wife] had come out in her early 20’s. That wasn’t accepted by her family at all, hence, when I met her, her family were very encouraging of us getting married and having a child…
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S7 Ep 10: The Apology You Needed but Never Got with Tom Jones
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1:00:49Tom Jones was married to a woman for 22 years and hid in a deep closet in denial. His wife was aware of his same sex attraction early on, but not the depth of it. A positive HIV status and an acute addition to crystal meth deeply impacted their marriage and lives, resulting in divorce. His wife was diagnosed with cancer and passed away just two yea…
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S7 Ep 9: Behind the Scenes of Behind the Looking Glass with Filmmaker Vaishnavi Sundar
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1:02:29Filmmaker Vaishnavi Sundar discusses her recently released documentary: Behind the Looking Glass, which delves into the lives and experiences of women whose partners have, or want to, transition. With voices from women worldwide, this film is the first of its kind. Today’s conversation touches on pornography, coercive control, emotional, financial …
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S7 Ep 8: The 6 Stages of Coming Out With Dr. Ben Schilaty
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49:16Dr. Ben Schilaty, a social work professor and therapist, explains the Six Stages of Coming Out (first observed by Dr. Vivienne Cass in the 1970's). We explore both the experiences of LGBT+ spouses progressing through these stages, along with the corresponding experiences of straight spouses at each stage. This conversation aims to shed light on the…
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S7 Ep 7: A Detransitioned Man Shares His Motives for Becoming a Trans Woman so Wives Can Better Understand their Spouses
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1:09:48Ray Alex Williams used to go by the name Rachel. A former trans woman, today he refers to himself as a detransitioner. In this episode, he shares his perspective on his own transition process, including his true motivations for transitioning. Exploring a diversity of essential perspectives like Ray’s can provide wives whose husbands have come out a…
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S7 Ep 6: Navigating Conflicting Feelings When a Straight Spouse has an LGBT+ Child
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52:57When Christine discovered her husband was gay after thirteen years of marriage, at first she felt relief that the disconnect between them had been explained. Anger and grief came much later. But when her oldest child came out as trans a few years later, she felt her grief first. Many straight spouses in mixed orientations marriages have LGBT+ child…
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S7 Ep 5: One Husband's Story of Divorcing a Late-Life Lesbian
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1:06:29When another husband called Wade out of the blue to tell him both their wives were spending time together on a vacation that very moment, Wade Ferris knew the writing was on the wall. With candor and vulnerability, Wade shares his story of learning that his wife of 23 years is a lesbian during the pandemic. A dedicated father and husband, Wade trie…
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S7 Ep 4: Coming Out as a Late Life Lesbian with Anne-Marie Zanzal
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1:24:34Podcaster, Writer and coming out Coach Anne-Marie Zanzal shares her journey to coming out as a late-life lesbian after decades in a straight marriage. With the hope of building understanding and healing for straight husbands, she sheds light on the experiences of women coming out later in life and answers their questions. About Anne-Marie: https://…
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S7 Ep 3: The Case for Letting Go with Karen Slater
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1:01:29Karen Slater had a lot to forgive her closeted husband for, not the least of which is the impact his sexual rejection had on her. It created profound insecurity about her body and sparked years of yo-yo dieting, trying to reignite their sex life, only to have her efforts fail and the cycle repeat. In this conversation, she shares all she had to for…
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S7 Ep 2: The Sweet Pain of Being Alive with Ann Anderson Evans
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1:14:20Author Ann Anderson Evans shares her story of loss and healing after she discovered her husband’s body the morning after he took his own life. After a decades long struggle with his gender identity and her husband's suicide, Ann has worked to make sense of her life, the man she married, and the hidden pain he carried. Ann's story is nuanced, compli…
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S7 Ep 1: Creating an Authentic Life After Mixed Orientation Marriage with Sally Srok
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1:06:14Author and Coach Sally Srok shares her experience of losing herself in a 20-year mixed orientation marriage, learning her husband was gay, and how she rebuilt her life after divorce. After a birthday trip on a cattle drive reawakened her sense of self, Sally found the strength to confront her unhappy marriage, pursue a divorce, and keep her childre…
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S6 Ep 13: Healing the Trauma and Shame of Betrayal with Author Michelle Mays
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47:04Today we talk to Licensed Professional Counselor and expert in treating sexual betrayal Michelle Mays. She is the author of The Betrayal Bind: How to Heal When the Person You Love the Most Hurts you the Worst. We discuss the emotional and psychological impact of sexual betrayal on betrayed partners, the four types of gaslighting and their effects, …
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S6 Ep 12: A Deep Dive Into Forgiveness, Part 2, with Pastor Carter Cortelyou
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53:21In part 2 of our deep dive into forgiveness, we seek a spiritual perspective with Methodist Pastor Carter Cortelyou. We talk about why it can be so hard to let go of the identity of being a straight spouse, what lies on the other side of forgiveness, and why forgiveness can make us feel vulnerable. Carter Cortelyou is a United Methodist clergy pers…
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S6 Ep 11: A Deep Dive into Forgiveness with Everette Worthington
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1:04:28It's no secret that people who have been betrayed often have a hard time forgiving the person who betrayed them. Resistance to "letting them off the hook" is understandable. In this illuminative conversation with Professor Everette Worthington, we learn the science and research behind forgiveness - what it is, how to do it, and why it matters for o…
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S6 Ep 10: The Secret Life of Secrets with Michael Slepian
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55:49Michael Slepian is the leading expert on the psychology of secrets and author of The Secret Life of Secrets. Slepian has authored more than fifty articles on secrecy, truth, and deception. We talk about why people keep their sexual orientation and gender identity secret (among other secrets), how secrets impact both the secret keeper and those that…
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S6 EP 9: Counseling Couples Through Gender Transition with Dr. Gary Bischof
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1:04:22Dr. Gary Bischof is a professor and coordinator of the Marriage, Couple and Family Counseling Program in the Dept of Counselor Education and Counseling Psychology at Western Michigan University. He is a licensed marriage and family therapist specializing in the treatment of couples navigating the gender transition of one of the partners. In this ep…
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S6 Ep 7: Post Separation Abuse and High Conflict Divorce with the author of Cover Wife, Suzanne Hope
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1:00:11After discovering that her husband was regularly dialing "Manhunt," one of the most iconic telephone dating services for gay men, Suzanne knew her marriage was not what she thought. After she left the marriage she endured two decades of post separation abuse and coercive control. Her experience has lead her to become a certified high conflict divor…
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S6 Ep 6: Autoheterosexuality and the Connection with Trans Identities with Phil Illy
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1:37:14When our guest Phil Illy found out he had a sexual orientation that he’d never heard of, he set out to understand it. Following an extensive review of nearly a century of research from clinical sexology, Phil describes and demystifies autoheterosexuality, and how this much misunderstood sexual orientation can set someone on a path to becoming trans…
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S6 Ep 5: Decoding Closeted Spouses with Ryan King
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1:21:48Our favorite self-described former closeted gay narcissist in recovery joins us for a third time to answer audience questions. In this episode he helps us demystify and identify the deflection, script flipping, gaslighting, blame shifting and shame shifting tactics some closeted spouses may exhibit during the course of a mixed orientation marriage …
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S6 Ep 4: When Disclosure is Still Fresh with Bridget Walker
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57:1710 years ago, Bridget unknowingly married a gay man. He came out to her just four months ago. In this raw, deeply honest episode, Bridget takes listeners on a journey through the early days of her heartbreak with vulnerability and realness. She talks about anger, depression, and coping with learning that her marriage was not what she thought. She m…
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S6 Ep 3: Surviving Betrayal Beautifully with Jessica Frew
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56:52Jessica Frew is a wife, ex-wife, mom, stepmom, and she hosts a podcast called “Husband in Law” that she records with her husband, Matt, and her ex-husband, Steve, who is gay. Jessica shares here own story of Mixed Orientation Marriage, how they tried to make it work, how it eventually fell apart, and how she and her ex-husband managed to co-create …
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S6 Ep 2: Surviving a High Conflict Divorce
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1:21:24Your financial support helps make this content possible. If you would like to contribute to the podcast, please donate here. Our guest Jason shares his story of high conflict divorce after his wife's coming out. He describes how he navigated serious unfounded accusations, being arrested in front of his children based on those accusations, and the c…
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S6 Ep 1: Cheating is Cheating with The Chump Lady, Tracy Schorn
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54:53If you would like to support this episode, please donate here. On today's Season 6 opener, Chump Lady Tracy Schorn talks about cheating, double lives and closets (of all kinds), and the toll being a chump can take on an unsuspecting spouse or partner. Tracy cuts through the nonsense and calls a spade a spade: cheating is the "theft of your reality"…
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S5 Ep 9: What is Autogynephilia with Dr. Ray Blanchard
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1:01:47Dr. Blanchard is widely known for his typology of transexuals and as the originator of the term Autogynephilia, a controversial paraphilia which describes a heterosexual male’s propensity to be sexually aroused by the idea of themselves as women. Dr. Blanchard was the psychologist in the Adult Gender Identity Clinic at the Clarke Institute of Psych…
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S5 Ep 8: When Closets are Part of Domestic Abuse
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56:56In this episode, our guest describes the domestic abuse she endured at the hands of her husband, who was also closeted. She shares the danger signs of domestic abuse, her risky exit from her marriage, and how she now uses her experience to become an advocate for both Straight Partners and Domestic abuse survivors.…
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S5 Ep 7: What it Means When a Spouse Comes Out as Non-binary
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1:05:39Philippa wasn’t sure what it meant for her marriage when her husband came out to her as transgender/non-binary. The road after disclosure was a rocky one, and at times, Philippa didn’t think her marriage would survive. She describes how, with a commitment to treat each other with respect and honesty through the process, they arrived at a marriage t…
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S5 Ep 6: Making Meaning when It’s Hard to Talk About
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45:31Kirsten Duncan, host of the Unexpected Launch podcast, talks about her husband’s disclosure that he is gay, how her entire life as she knew it changed in that moment, and how listening to other peoples’ stories of navigating big life challenges helped her move forward. She shares the questions and doubts she has about her history, and why it’s so h…
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S5 Ep 5: A Former Closeted Narcissist in Recovery Answers Your Questions
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1:38:18Ryan King returns to the podcast to answer your most common questions about closeted narcissists, their motivations and behaviors. He speaks from his own experience and his experience working with other closeted, married (to women) men. He uses what he’s observed to bring clarity and validation to Straight Partners.…
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S5 Ep 4: Reconnecting to Our Sexual Selves after Betrayal Trauma
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54:22Zoë Kors is a sought-after sex and intimacy coach. She gives us a road map to heal our sexual selves after relationship betrayal. After sexual betrayal, there is an opportunity to reimagine our sexual expression, whether that’s with an existing partner or with a new partner. We explore what is possible for women and men when they embrace their auth…
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S5 Ep 3: Getting to the Bottom of Anger with Michael Plank
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51:50Dr. Michael Plank is a pastor and professor. When his wife disclosed that she is a lesbian, their lives as church leaders seemed to hang in the balance. With the help of a qualified trauma therapist, Michael had to find a way to the bottom of his anger, and back out again, in order to heal and find a healthy co-parenting relationship with his forme…
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S5 Ep 2: The Impact of Gender Transition on Sex
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49:10Shannon Thrace talks about how sex and intimacy with her spouse changed when they transitioned genders. In this frank, vulnerable and explicit conversation, Shannon shares how gender transition impacted her sexual relationship with her partner, as well as their connection to each other’s bodies. Her memoir, 18 Months: A Memoir of a Marriage Lost to…
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S5 Ep 1: Grace and Frankie with Show Creator Marta Kauffman
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43:52Marta Kauffman, creator of the Netflix series Grace and Frankie, joins us to talk about the inspiration behind her characters, how the idea to give them gay husbands came about, and how her characters, as portrayed by Jane Fonda and Lily Tomlin, survive and thrive after late in life divorce.Kristin Kalbli
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S4 Ep 8: Open Relationships 101 for Mixed Orientation Couples
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1:13:062/3 of Mixed Orientation Couples will try to stay together post disclosure or discovery. Often they try opening their relationships as a way to keep their families together. Guest Libby Sinback is the host of the Making Polyamory Work Podcast. She gives us a 101 tutorial on open relationships, and how to proceed with mindfulness, respect, and reali…
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S4 Ep 7: The Impact of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell on a Military Wife
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37:43Janice and her husband were members of the US military during the “Don’t Ask Don’t Tell” era. That enforced secrecy, combined with being southern, Baptist, and African American, meant her husband had no safety to come out as gay. In this episode, Janice describes what it was like to live with a husband who began living a double life immediately aft…
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S4 Ep 6: When Praying Away the Gay Doesn’t Work
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47:59Christian therapist Candice Czubernat never expected to be working with Straight Partners as part of her LGBT+ affirming therapy practice. But many of her LGBT+ clients were told the same thing she was told by a pastor as a young woman: if they prayed hard enough and lived a righteous life, the gay would go away. When that didn’t happen, the Straig…
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S4 Ep 5: When a Parent Transitions, A Son Does Too
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52:45In this open and heartfelt conversation with Jonathan Williams, son of transgender writer and speaker Paula Stone Williams, he shares his own journey through disbelief, anger, resentment, and finally, acceptance that his father was a trans woman. As an Evangelical pastor who followed in his father’s footsteps, having a transgender parent was a care…
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S4 Ep 4: The Invitation to Transformation with Priscilla Tuft
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57:53Fitness entrepreneur, energy healer, transformation and empowerment coach Priscilla Tuft has a gift for guiding people through radical transformations. And she’s been through one of her own as the wife of former WWE Champion wrestler Gabe Tuft. In this episode, Priscilla describes her journey after Gabe came out as transgender and transitioned to G…
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S4 Ep 3: A “Narcissist in Recovery” Gets Real
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1:47:57Ryan King knew he was gay from the time he was six years old. Despite this, he married a woman. In this double-length episode, Ryan sheds light on the abusive, narcissistic tactics he used to keep his unsuspecting wife trapped in their affectionless marriage, in the hope that other Straight Partners will recognize the signs of a closeted spouse. Un…
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S4 Ep 2: Learning to Trust Again with Dr. Debi Silber
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41:54Dr. Debi Silber is the founder of the Post Betrayal Transformation Institute and is a holistic psychologist, a health, mindset and personal development expert, the author of Trust Again: Overcoming Betrayal and Regaining Health, Confidence and Happiness. Today on the show, we talk about Post Betrayal Syndrome, the impact betrayal trauma has on the …
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S4 Ep 1: Welcome to OurPath
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36:21Welcome to OurPath, formerly the Straight Spouse Network. Today on the show, founder Dr. Amity Pierce Buxton, Executive Director Kelly Hollimon, and board member Tiffany Butler discuss the rebranding of the Straight Spouse Network as OurPath, Inc. They answer all your questions about why the organization decided to adopt a new name and rebrand, how…
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S3 Ep 20: Let’s Talk About Sex. No, Let’s Really Talk About It
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52:20Deborah Simmons is co-author of the pre-published book, “What’s a Good Man to Do? A Candid Conversation about Sexuality.” Today she shares how to open up to dating again after traumatic relationship experiences. She advises men how to navigate their desire for women during the #MeToo era, and shares tips for honesty in discussions around our own se…
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S3 Ep 19: Pretending to Be Straight: Sociopathic Partners Who are Secretly Gay
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51:36Psychotherapist Ross Rosenberg is an expert in clinical narcissism, narcissistic personality disorders and sociopathy. Today he discusses what happens when a narcissistic or sociopathic individual intentionally hides their sexuality with the intention of harming others or for personal gain. “Sexual orientation is independent of psychopathology,” he…
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S3 Ep 18: How Gender Transition Impacts a Couple
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54:59Married couple Stephanie and Debbie Hayton get personal in their discussion of Debbie’s gender transition, candidly sharing how it impacted their relationship and their family. Debbie tried to suppress her desire to transition until she no longer could. Stephanie tried to keep the family together as best as she could. This vulnerable interview high…
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S3 Ep 17: A Gay Man on the Pressure to Marry Straight
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35:04As a young, gay African American male from a Christian background, Nigel Ashford believed he would have to marry a woman to make his family and God happy. He didn’t think about the potential wife in the scenario: “To be honest I wasn’t thinking about the other person. I hate to say it, but the only thing I was thinking of was ‘how do I make my fami…
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S3 Ep 16: A Young Closeted Lesbian on the Prospect of Straight Marriage
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53:53Today, Layla Ali, a 19-year-old closeted lesbian from a conservative Muslim family, speaks about growing up as a gay Muslim, and the pressure she feels to marry a man. In fact, Layla isn’t even her real name, and we used a voice actress to portray her, because it is not safe for her to come out publicly. Layla talks about how marrying an opposite s…
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S3 Ep 15: A Self-Identified Trans Widow Speaks
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50:09Today on the show, a self-identified Trans Widow speaks about the gender transition of her husband. Initially, she made efforts to accept her husband’s need to cross dress, even accompanying him on nights out while he was dressed as a woman. But when he announced his intention to fully transition, she knew the marriage she had tried so hard to main…
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S3 Ep 14: A Methodist Mixed Orientation Ex-Couple Talks Faith and Coming Out
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54:56Methodist pastor Carter Cortelyou and his ex-wife Peggy Garrigues, who works at a Unitarian Universalist church, talk about their marriage, divorce, and Peggy’s sexuality. Peggy came out as lesbian two decades into their marriage. Carter and Peggy share how they navigated disclosure and remaining quiet about Peggy’s orientation because of her minis…
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S3 Ep 13: Navigating a Spouse’s Gender Transition
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54:44Writer and performer Julie Feinstein Adams shares her experience navigating both her husband’s sexuality and their gender transition from male to female. She shares how, in a spirit of acceptance and goodwill, she tried to roll with the news that her spouse was bisexual (and wanted to open their marriage), and transgender, until she could no longer…
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