The Importance of True Relationship with Your Employees with Kellie Commons

Let‘s Talk HR - Humanizing the Conversation

Kellie Commons is an HR geek by her own admission and a very smart one at that. She has been in some of the toughest industries to staff and manage, in my opinion. From manufacturing to food and beverage she knows how to create an environment that people want to work in. She invests time in understanding people so that true relationships can be developed.

Leighann Lovely 00:20

HR professionals, Business Owners and Operations at all levels are struggling to figure out what needs to change. Our system has been shocked practices have been questioned, and conversations are finally happening. We all know there has been a huge shift in what people want. inclusion and diversity are common phrases. But often misunderstood generations are coming together more than ever on what's important. Mental health has been brought to the forefront of everyone's mind. Let's humanize these conversations. Let's talk about what's important for employees to be successful in life and at their job and how companies can create an environment to allow them to do both because successful people will make up a successful workforce. I'm Leighann Lovely. Let's get this conversation started.

Leighann Lovely 01:09

Another great episode coming to you today. I'm speaking with Kellie Commons. Originally from Milwaukee Kellie left Wisconsin for her undergrad at Purdue University and a job at in Kansas City, Missouri, but new Milwaukee was a place to raise a family after nearly a decade in manufacturing, and an MBA from Mount Mary Kellie returned to her hospitality roots to build human resource functionality for Saz's Hospitality Group, and now is a senior HR business partner with Gehl Foods and beverage in Germantown. Small businesses and community involvement are her passion. So she works with a number of organizations in the area and volunteers with groups to help students grow like launch and teaches in the Lubar College of Business. At UW Milwaukee, Kellie was recognized in 2020 as a notable women in human resource by BuzTimes Media, she tries to be as avid with fitness as she is with reading and napping, and loves exploring the Waukee area restaurants Kellie lives in Wauwatosa with her partner Rob, who is an owner of Vennture Brew company and her daughter, Anna, I'm excited to have this awesome conversation with a very amazing woman. So let's welcome her.

Leighann Lovely 02:36

Kellie, welcome. I am so excited to talk with you today.

Kellie Commons 02:41

Thanks so much for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Leighann Lovely 02:43

So Kellie, why don't you start off by telling me a little bit about yourself and your background?

Kellie Commons 02:48

Sure, absolutely. I am currently a senior HR business partner with gale food and beverage in Germantown, Wisconsin. But I spent about the last seven years working for sasses Hospitality Group here in the Locky organization about 1000, folks, and I spent that time leading their HR team and building out HR functionality for them. I currently am teaching at UWS. I'm an adjunct in the Lubar college. I was previously teaching at Mount Mary University, which is where I received my MBA. So I find myself loving to talk about HR related topics, whether the listeners want to listen or not, which is sometimes the case of students. I live in Wauwatosa. I have a 16 year old, my partner owns a small business here that I tried to keep my HR nose out of.

Leighann Lovely 03:41

That's funny that you try to keep your HR you know, it's hard though, right? Especially when you're when you're, you know, an HR junkie.

Kellie Commons 03:50

Yes, there are times where I'm like, Are you sure you want to do that? Just that way. But you know, not my circus, not my monkeys.

Leighann Lovely 04:01

Right? Well, that's awesome. So, you know, it's really interesting. You you came from, you spent a lot of time at, you know, in the hospitality industry and now you've moved to, you know, something that's you've moved away from that. So I, I would love to talk about, you know, I guess the differences in sure where you you were to where you're where you are, I mean, that's two different animals.

Kellie Commons 04:30

Yeah, they, you know, it's kind of a little bit like the difference between a tiger and a mountain lion though they are different animals that share a lot of similarities. And this is a return to manufacturing for me. So I've kind of been on a seesaw for the last 15 years. My background in education isn't hospitality. But then I worked in manufacturing for almost eight years, and then came back to hospitality and now back in manufacturing, so I've had a great opportunity Just see those differences and the similarities. You know, one of the biggest differences is that it is easier for folks sometimes to understand a career path. In the manufacturing industry, it is a little bit cleaner and a little bit more acceptable to have a blue collar job. You know, hospitality jobs are often kind of the brunt of the brunt of the joke, right? Like you went to school, and now you're a barista or you're a server. So kind of the ability to attract and retain people is a little bit different on the manufacturing side, because it is more classically presented as a job you can have it's kind of end, but you can turn into, you know, a lifelong pursuit. Sometimes it's a tough sell for hospitality, folks.

Leighann Lovely 05:57

And why do you think that is?

Kellie Commons 06:02

I think historically, a lot of it is the perception of the financial availability in hospitality. You know, there are some hospitality jobs as servers and bartenders can make extraordinarily generous living, you know, with very flexible hours, and they're skilled folks. But that's not the perception unless you've been in it. You know, if you're a lifelong bartender, if you look at, you know, the tropes in TV and movies, you know, somebody's been a bartender for 15 years, it's the butt of jokes, you know, I think of Nick Miller, a new girl, right, like being a bartender was his failure job. And if he had worked a line in a manufacturing plant, it would have really changed the premise of the show, you know, I, but I think the commonality there is sometimes that they are, both industries are a difficult sell outside as prestigious or something to be aspired to, I'm really glad that we're seeing a shift in how we approach students pursuing post high school, that it's not that important to have that four year degree that briefcase life that you know that there are other options available for students for whom that isn't comfortable or attractive or aligned with their skill set. So we're seeing that crack open a little bit more and become more popular is not the word I want, but more acceptable, more featured in high school students to see them pursue technical paths, apprenticeship paths, instead of that, you know, pursuit of a four year degree that, you know, might make them end up as a barista, just to circle back around. So the difference really, I think, is how people perceive the industries. The earning potential, the skills required more than anything else.

Leighann Lovely 08:03

You know, what movie keeps popping into my head, as you're talking is, and this is, I'm gonna date myself here, but the movie cocktail, right? Yeah. I mean, he's was it. What's the actor, Tom Cruise, Tom Cruise is He's busting his butt to go to college. Right? And, and he's just, he's not making it, not making it. And then he becomes a wildly successful bartender. And then he falls in love with a woman whose family won't accept him because he is a bartender, they in the end end up together. And it's not by any means, like this perfect, you know, perfect straight path. But in the end, he gets to have a dream of still being a bartender, right. And I go back to you know, during my time of growing up, it was you have to have a four year college to be successful. But that's not that doesn't. That doesn't hold water in today's society anymore. Because there are wildly successful people. One of my best friends makes a amazing living as a server. She has people who come she has people who who would come in just to see her and sit in her section because they liked her.

Kellie Commons 09:25

And the thing is, it didn't hold water for the last 25 years either. Just right. We weren't really availed any other options. You know, it was the path that we were shown it was the picture that we painted for students, that was how employers structured jobs in so many cases where that it wasn't necessary, or maybe even meaningfully beneficial. You know, the number of roles I've heard over time where it doesn't matter what they have a degree in as long as they Start with something. Well, that's nonsense. You know, if somebody was in a progressive role for the last four years, and building skills and experience, that is that is equally valuable, it shows that same stick to itiveness. And I could be in school for forever, if you gave me unlimited funding, I'm still trying to crack a way to make money reading books and thinking about stuff and talking about ideas and writing papers, if I could do it, I would. Head is not like that I'm, I'm in the minority to love school, the school setting that much. That's not how a lot of people learn best, it's not accessible to them in that style. And that's great, you know, some of the most successful folks I know, regardless of their role, or industry didn't come along on that path. And they're extraordinarily successful, right. So it had trying to find paths and avenues, I work with the the program called Launch here locally in the Wauwatosa Ellenberg school districts that put students in opportunities on a variety of different industry related threads, strands not threads to be paired with a professional mentor, and solve a real life business problem and give them exposure to what things could look like on some paths that that could take you into a four year education. Or could take you into an apprenticeship or a technical program, and really get a feel for where your skills and strengths lie. And seeing more employers partner with organizations like that, and programs in that vein, to give students a more holistic viewpoint of what truly skills and education are available, and how you can gain those in ways that aren't necessarily, you know, spending more than $100,000. You know, the economics of underdeveloped countries in the history of rock and roll like there's, there's there's better way as I what I that's one of the things that I love about both hospitality and manufacturing, are that there are there's been a lot of attention to developing and displaying career paths within the industries and organizations that I've worked with, to show, this isn't a dead end job, you know, this, you're not going to stand on this line forever, that you if what you want is to learn and grow and expand within this company, or within this industry, there are our paths towards that.

Leighann Lovely 12:51

And I love what you just said that, that it within the industry, they are now starting to show that there are paths. And I think that that's where it's been lacking, you become a server, and there's nothing else that that's what you're gonna do from the time you start till the time that you end to that you're no longer there. And if there's if there's an actual path, because they've done a really great job of showing that when you're in this, you know, white color, you know, roll of here, you know, here's where you begin, here's where you can go. But that's not necessarily what happens with everybody. You have to have somebody at every level. And some people don't.

Kellie Commons 13:30

People don't want that correct. Continue moving up. And you need those folks, those right. Well, that no all the secrets and the subject matter expertise. The unfortunate as Glad as I am to see it happening now though, I think a lot of the struggle is that we've we're way behind the eight ball, manufacturing and hospitality in particular, have legged in responding to the changing needs of the workforce over the last 15 years. This was something that we needed to be focused on. But there was such a an embarrassment of riches in terms of available people in the workforce who were willing or needed to take whatever job they could get. And you could you know, put them in that Ron Popeil rotisserie and just set them and forget them. And if they quit thought you hire somebody else, you know, you fill those entry level roles. And never meaningfully in hospitality and manufacturing very much. So gave them that attention that someone in the entry level of a white collar job may have gotten about, here's what the ladder looks like. Right. And so as employees, we have fewer people in the workforce than you know, in any time in recent history, and folks that are entering the workforce, and folks that are in the workforce are requiring different things from their employers. And I think that That's great. And watching these two industries kind of crack open to understand the importance of providing that visibility, I think is a long time coming, but very valuable steps.

Leighann Lovely 15:11

Right? If we were to treat it, how do we treat? Because it's you're talking about it happening now. But had it always been? You treats? Regardless of the industry? Is it white collar, blue collar? Hospitality, I don't know which where that falls under. But had we treated all of them are the same regardless of, you know, education regardless, here's, here's where you're starting, here's the path of how you can progress. And in I'm assuming that in hospitality, I know it in manufacturing, because I understand that industry, I don't understand hospitality as well. But there is room to grow, right? There is room to hospitality, hey, you can become a trainer, you can become the manager of a division or whatever within. So there, there is there is I'm assuming growth opportunity. And like, absolutely. And like you said, not everybody wants that. Even in the white color industry even, right, hey, I just want to go in, I want to be a help desk technician. And I'm wanting to be really, really good at that. And that's my dream.

Kellie Commons 16:20

Yep, I just want to punch, I want to leave it at work, I, you know, I want to do this thing. I don't want to train people, I don't want to supervise people, I don't want to they want to do this, and I want you to pay me a little more every year and just leave me alone. Correct. And that's great. Those people are invaluable.

Leighann Lovely 16:36

Correct. And that's the same thing, if you want to be a machine operator, I just want to do this, I want to punch now. If you want to go in and eventually move up and become a trainer, a plant manager, whatever that might look like, it's no different.

Kellie Commons 16:52

Right? Or, you know, you're a machine operator. But are you curious about quality? Are you curious about supply chain, like, these are different paths that we can put you on? You know, this is how you can pursue that slight shift in gears or, you know, if you want to do this for a year, while you're going to school, while you're figuring it out, while you're deciding on the next thing, great, you know, we also need that that turnover is necessary. You know, being an HR professional part of you know, there, there's that propensity to say, drop the turnover to zero, we keep everybody forever, never leave, please never leave. But it really is about striking that balance between those folks that need to climb and want to climb those subsistence folks that want to just stick in their lane and be comfortable and experts at what they do. And those folks who want to come and go and bring an idea or a joke that becomes part of the culture or a sunshiny attitude, or an example of what not to do and stay for a shorter tenure, to keep that momentum in the business and keep the the team fresh. They're all important players, and they impact those numbers in such different ways.

Leighann Lovely 18:11

Absolutely. And now and you said, you know, obviously, you know the goal 0% turnover, right? That's it's never going to happen. I shouldn't say I mean,

Kellie Commons 18:25

What a nightmare. Oh, think of how horrible if we had 0% turnover? There were two years, nobody's gonna retire. And then why? You know, how do we

Leighann Lovely 18:35

Well, and there's never any fresh ideas. There's never any, you would never have, you know, organic growth in the sense of somebody coming in and saying, hey, you know, you could do it better this way. Or you could, you know, the whole concept of there would never be anybody coming in from another organization or a young or young brain who's like, you know, you could actually do it this way to reduce,

Kellie Commons 19:00

You know, yeah, whatever it might be, we just do it how we've always done it. Yeah.

Leighann Lovely 19:07

So there always needs to be that that, you know, new fresh blood coming in. But I also have heard a lot of people saying that some of those younger people coming in, they want to, they want to be loyal. They they're they're looking to find their home.

Kellie Commons 19:26

Sure, nobody, it's a rare person that enjoys the need to bounce. In my experience, working with folks that are predominantly Gen Z as students in the workforce. Within those launch programs, there isn't that intrinsic mental link for that age group where loyalty and longevity are necessarily tied. They want to be loyal in that they want to be engaged and contribute and understand what's happening. happening and be valued. And if that's true, they will stay for longer periods of time. But they are also not opposed to being loyal to 100%. For shorter periods of time, like that we especially as you know, elder millennials, and you know, Gen X leaders have this idea that loyalty means longevity. Loyalty means that you're not on your phone and you're offering fresh ideas and you're invested in what you're doing, and your work is being completed on schedule, and you're giving me and the organization, your best, it doesn't mean that you're phoning it in at 65%. But you stay for five years, that's, I don't want that type of, I don't want that type of loyalty. You know, I'm concerned, regardless of the timeframe, with an engaged, contributing workforce, you know, do I want people to leave every six to 12 months? No, you know, I would love to see, but three years is a wonderful tenure for folks in this Gen Z bucket. They are energized and you get a lot of contributions from them, but it never gets stale. And you're you get a reasonable turn of, of fresh ideas and voices.

Leighann Lovely 21:22

And it's wildly interesting, because I talked to so many HR professionals, and they always think of loyalty and longevity, as you know, an inclusion inclusive thing, jus haven't looked at as something different. Is is really refreshing because you can be wildly loyal, but only be at a company for two to three years. And and give it your all and then have that company in turn, not be upset when it's time for you to move on. And still in and I've had this conversation. I've had this conversation with HR professionals, when they're saying, you know, I don't know that this person's in it for the long haul. And I've had to say to him, if this person will give you high quality, awesome work for the next two years, is it worth it to hire them right now? Well, yeah. Okay. So why are you concerned that they're going to leave you, you know, that you don't want to hire him? Because they might leave you in five years? Or they might leave you at? What you know? And they're like, Well, you know, I really don't want to have to train somebody again. Okay. It's going to take what, two, three weeks to get them up and running. And then by, you know, two months, three months from now, they're gonna be out there on their own producing doing an awesome job for you, which is what you're saying? Well, yeah. Okay. So for two and a half, three years,

Kellie Commons 22:53

The real responsibility is having that argument with people. The real responsibility is that you as a leader, while there there need to work to increase the, or to decrease the time to proficiency for the next person. But it's it How fast can we get them up and running? Correct. Understanding that now we're shifting our focus to we want to lock somebody into this role for the next six years. And it we're shifting it to let's get someone in here who's passionate about it, and get them working as fast as we can, right? My partner likes to say, when he hires new team members, I'm just renting you until you're on to the next big thing.

Leighann Lovely 23:32

And that if we, if more, more leaders thought of it that way. And were in again, not. They were loyal to those employees, as long as those employees were at the company. And those employees were loyal to them there and understanding that because everybody wants Oh, you know, my company is the best. And anybody who works here is going to stay here forever. No, they're not. I'm sorry, I'm sorry to bust your you know, burst your bubble, I'm sorry to break your heart, but you're not the best. There is. Millions of organizations out there. And your your, if you want to leave this position open for the next six months, while you look for the perfect person who's going to stay there for the next 10 years. You're you're going to lose six months, maybe eight months of production. Or you could hire this person who you know, will do a great job, but you know, that they're probably going to leave in two years. But there's

Kellie Commons 24:32

But there's an interesting, but that mentality, oh, sorry, go ahead.

Leighann Lovely 24:36

But there are a ton of employers out there that still will say, Yeah, I'm going to pass on them because I think they're going to leave in two years. Okay, then you can leave this open, and you're going to lose the production that this person would jump in and be able to get up and running and give you those two solid years for sure. You know, and maybe leave and maybe you know what if you treat them amazing, and you do really Well, maybe he'll get three years out of them, maybe you'll get even longer out of them.

Kellie Commons 25:05

But maybe they'll stay with the organization and move into a different role if it is the best company like, and you know that I hate the word attitude across the board that voiced opinion from employers. And the fact that that is a known belief, prevents people from being honest about what they want to need. I've always had that mentality with my team like I am, you're here for now, you're in this role for as long as you are until you're on to your next adventure. Right? So I have had team members come to me and say, It's not that I'm unhappy with my job. But I think in the next couple of months, I'm going to be looking to move on to my next chapter. Right? Not two weeks notice. Because it isn't met with that resistance and that bitterness? How can you let and you know, we haven't we have the opportunity then to have an open conversation? Is there something about your job I can change? Would it help to shift? Is it money? Like, and okay, if it's time for you to leave? How can I support you into the next? Do you need some contacts? Do you need help taking a look at your resume, if we can have an open dialogue about the fact that we are not getting married. When we hire an employee, it's not forever, we can have a more open and honest dialogue when it's time for them to leave and move on to that next thing so that we don't feel so left in the lurch. Managing that retention schedule is a daily leadership function, that it's based on the relationship and not that one sided idea that you I hired you. And now you have to stay here forever.

Leighann Lovely 26:49

You know, and then God if, if more managers, and that really leads me into the next question that I was going to ask you, which is what are some of the strategies that you have to better understand your team and retain your people in in a market like this? And you're you are already answering that you're having that open dialogue and not having, you know, if people were more open and going to their managers and saying, you know, here are the reasons that I'm thinking or considering leaving. And that manager said, Okay, let's, let's talk it through. And if I can offer you something that you're missing in your current role, you want more responsibility, you want more, or if we just don't have it here, then I completely understand now your position to go. Okay. So in the next four months, I'm going to have another slot that I'm going to need to, to fill your as a company, you're better position to move and, you know, be prepared to to backfill that you're not going to be backfilling that, you're not going to be behind the mark, you're going to be ahead of the curve, where all the other companies are going to be like, Oh, wait, you're giving two weeks notice what, why, why you're doing such a good job, you're already aware. And you're right.

Kellie Commons 27:59

Take the next 10 days to write down everything you do, because we haven't been paying attention to your needs in this this day. And part of a to answer the question with kind of a pivot in this market. I think especially in manufacturing, and hospitality, so much of managing the employee needs is different than the conversations that are being had. I go to so many events and webinars and seminars and the folks that are having these conversations about even the data that's been collected there in white collar jobs. Even in manufacturing, hospitality, we're talking to people who sit in air conditioned offices, you know, like there, were talking about flexible scheduling and remote work, and those things are great. But I can't run a manufacturing plant remotely. Right. Um, and it's disappointing, especially as HR as a practice and employers overall are starting to talk about paths into professional life, but don't go through that four year college track. We're still not having conversations about how to meet the needs of people that don't take that path. I can't offer construction workers remote schedule. It's difficult to navigate sick time in some of those scenarios. Because I my my relatively white collar neighborhood is going to freak out if we don't get our snow plowed because we upped the sick days for our municipal package. And you know, so part of the struggle is a voice at the table. have employers is to say, the data we have on this doesn't apply. I think we need to be surveying, a surveys are such a tough thing. We need to be collecting more data, whether it is quantitative survey based data or internal qualitative feedback from our team members about how to serve their needs, and make the jobs that we're trying to get people to fill, and stay in more attractive and feasible to that one of our plants still move to the, you know, in order to fill the third shift, they said, we'll do 4-10s.

Leighann Lovely 30:43

It's so I completely understand what you're saying. So I, my husband, he is he's in a blue collar role. He runs a, you know, a process, he runs out, you know, he's on the manufacturing floor. So, you know, he's sitting here listening to me talk about, you know, oh, man, I can work from home when I whenever I want, I can do this. And, and he's sitting there going, Yeah, well, I have to go in every day, I have to be at my machine every day, he's like this, none of this stuff really applies to me, none of it. You know, why should I care about any of this? And I'm thinking to myself, Wow, through the entire pandemic, his business was considered essential. Yeah, it I mean, so think about all of these people, all, you know, the whole entire world is like, Oh, I only want to work remote. Now, I'm not gonna go into the office anymore. And here are these individuals, how you know, the hospitals, you've got all of these essential workers that the world is going crazy arguing about, I'm not going to I'm not going to go into the office anymore. And we're blind to the fact that there is a huge population of people, that still their lives did not change. They went to work every single day. And in some cases, they worked harder. I mean, my God hospitals, they worked their butts off. How and what are we doing? Because all of us, you know, white collar workers are saying, well, I want better conditions, I want to be able to work from home, why would I go into the office when I can do? We're sitting here being and forgive me, but selfishly, you know, me, me, me. But what about them? What about? How do we improve the quality, that of, of how they work? When we're still saying, Well, you need to be there every day, I need my labels for my bread, nut bread, cheese, or whatever, so that I can go to the store and get my and then we're sitting here whining about why is there a shortage of this toilet paper?

Kellie Commons 32:52

Why are their supply chain issues? Right? There was there's been a lot of statements over time, if you don't like it get get a better job, right? Get a better job. Like, there are a lot of roles in manufacturing companies that are on that production side that make excellent livings. It is arguably a better job than many, many options. You're saying get a different job that has the same standards that I do. But if that's the case, then you don't have food products, you have supply chain delays, you have municipal your trash isn't getting picked up, you're like, it's not, it's not as simple as we would like to make it out to be. And realistically, the workforce is pretty well split between those service based things where that remote work is possible. And those boots on the ground, there is no way to produce this remotely, roles that keep the whole thing on the wheel on its wheels. And we've spent so much time talking about the former category of employees. And it's continued to make that those latter categories appear less attractive to people having those conversations, right, because as employers, we are still trying to minimize any available cost, of course. And my challenge always, you know, as an HR practitioner has been that balance right where that fulcrum point between the appropriate sacrifice on the part of the business and the appropriate sacrifice on the part of the employee. And each party as HR practitioners, each side of that equation thinks that we're most concerned with the other side, you know, and but how, how do we balance that, you know, and how do we make those roles as attractive as possible and meeting the needs of the team? I wish we had more conversations about it. Right, especially as we have emphasized the importance of getting people into those roles.

Leighann Lovely 34:57

And I think that the people who are fit ugly on the floor need to have a voice at that table? They can't they can't have somebody speaking on their behalf. Because, and I know, and I'm not saying that somebody like you doesn't fully understand.

Kellie Commons 35:12

I don't I absolutely don't.

Leighann Lovely 35:15

Right, But you truly, you truly don't. Because you're, you're not in it every day somebody needs somebody who's physically, somebody who's physically doing that work, needs to have a seat at the table, to be able to say, look, I'm here to represent my fellow workers, I'm here to say, this is what would help us this would this is what would make a difference. For us. We know we have to be here, we know we have to come in every day. But what if we did this? What you know, and come up with different ideas? Because I don't know when the last time that I heard somebody who physically is doing that job, talk about how they could make it better. All the feedback that I always get is from somebody who's managing those people from an office. Yeah.

Kellie Commons 36:11

And I really do you know, we surveys have become such a buzz topic, right? We're always we're talking about employee engagement surveys, and blah, blah, blah. And sometimes those surveys, my question around the surveys, it's always like, do we want to win? Or do we want to learn? Do we want good numbers in this? Or like, reactions from employees that make it appear that we're doing everything we can? Or do we want to get just blasted? Like, do we want the ugly answers? Because I want the ugly answers, right, I want to I want to hear those things that I that I haven't heard, because sometimes it is things like, you know, it would be for a third shift would be more attractive to me, if I only had to do it three days, or four days a week, right? You know, if we could work six, six hour shifts for some people based on their family, you know, like, if we could break this into four, six hour shifts, where it could be a little bit more flexible for people.

Leighann Lovely 37:12

But I think that we've created a culture that is it's fear based. For so many individuals out there, well, if I speak up, and I'm honest about it, what if I lose my job? What if they replace me with somebody who's going to conform to what they need here? I mean, and, and I, I've seen those cultures, too. I've, I've placed individuals in there that literally start working there. And then three days later, they're like, I'm not working here anymore. And I'm like, why what's going on? And they're like, oh, what's a horrible, horrible culture, I cannot, you know, it's so there are those still those fear based cultures conform? Or your route? So we, you know, as a society, this is still a, you know, a systemic problem that that is, that is raging throughout, within some of these, you know, industries that exists still, it's conform, or go away, it's still the, or you're not doing this fast enough, or how dare you take a sick day is king, right? Production is, and I and I get that but there's gotta be a different, there's, there's got to be a better way.

Kellie Commons 38:22

And that's, culture is such an interesting thing. Because there again, you know, kind of the folks that sit in offices, work on culture a lot, as a topic, capital, see culture, right. And I've seen a lot of organizations, where the capital C culture that happens off the floor, what our mouths are saying doesn't match the the little c culture that is what happens on the floor, and is what our feet are doing. And I think there's a lot of disconnect in HR as a discipline, about how culture is driven. You know, I struggle as an HR practitioner with being charged with with improving the culture. Sometimes you know, that it's something in my career over the last 1516 years that I've been charged with doing more than once, we need to change the culture, you and your team need to change the culture. I can't. I can't if you say that, that one of our values is, you know, growth and development. But so that's the culture that I'm pushing, you know, but that leadership at the floor level, the frontline level, is focused on call volume in a call center or like customer time in contact with it's not about getting that training and that's not a priority. How can I I can't lead all of the teams you know, whatever that that priority is happens every minute of every day. Culture is not an initiative, you know, the culture is. So in order to change the culture, you have to change what you do. Right. And, you know, I feel like in some of these scenarios where that is there is that mismatch of priorities, especially in those like frontline type jobs, the culture is we care about our people that are the most important thing, like, you know, and then it's you need to work six days, or you need to get XYZ done, but there's no overtime available to do within or your hours are being cut.

Leighann Lovely 40:41

It's it starts at the top, however, it has to, it has to be believed, and it has to be shown all the way down, trickled down. And if one person is out of misalignment, and is, oh, well, you didn't finish this, you have to stay late, that throws off, you know, absolutely everything, if the whole idea is work life balance, the whole idea is taking it absolutely it has to it has to start from the very top of holding whatever that value is true to heart.

Kellie Commons 41:19

And then it has to be 100% Correct. You know, and meet any, you know, problem is any deviation from expected performance, right. And, and as leaders throughout the organization, the accountability for those cultural initiatives, whatever it is, that we're focusing on, has to be absolute. Because it just like having kids, right, like the first time, the first time there's a chink in that armor, you know, that if this is our the first time there's a glimmer of light through that, where you fail to enforce it. It's nothing but arrows through that tiny hole, and you've lost all accountability. And culture can't be something where I like slink out of my HR cave, and deliver as a mandate, you know, that this is who we are now, right? And that's kind of that my hump back and cook up some next thing that we're gonna, you know, you i You lose credibility, if it's not in lockstep with what our practices that everyone is held accountable to. And that has stemmed from the feedback from those line level employees like, this is the place that we want to work, and what does that balance between what we need to achieve production, financials, performance, whatever that is, where's that balance between the business that we have to do? And the business that we have to run? Right, are the people that do it?

Leighann Lovely 42:45

And, and that's why there's teams of people who I mean, outside, there's companies that all they do is they go into other companies to help completely, you know, change culture, and they work with people at every single level, all the way down to the manufacturing floor. Because one person does not have the ability to train to change the culture at a company and I, and I love that when you you said that, they come to you. And they say, okay, change the culture of the company. Really? What power does one person have? None. One person has zero power at a company, unless it's a company of one, right? Or maybe two,

Kellie Commons 43:31

The idea you have that, you know, culture isn't about posters are happy hour or a pool table, or you know, what, it's the culture leads to the pool table and the happy hour, you know, culture isn't mandatory fun, it's organic, fun,

Leighann Lovely 43:47

Right? If you have buy in from your entire organization, you then have created the culture. And in that call, and I'm not saying that you've created a good culture, right? I'm saying that the culture you've created the culture that is now if you have the organization all flowing in one way or the other. That is your culture. Yep, good or bad recurring, correct. In order to change that, if you're trying to change it for the better, you have to get buy in from your entire organization to be flowing in one way or another. One person does not have the ability to do that. It's just you need every,

Kellie Commons 44:29

or even one department. It's not like we released all of our HR minions into the wild and shift this you know, it would be like it would be like goldfish turning a boat, like there's just not enough that you're picturing it right? Like and how many goldfish you would need to do that. You know, but that's that's the thing, but if we get all of the fish in the whole place, we can turn the boat Yep. But our you know, the the two 612 fish that are HR to Depending on the size of the organization, right, just don't have the juice. And, you know, I understand working in HR, the joke is, you know, I'll make it myself at this point, like, here comes the fun police, you know, like, HR historically just doesn't have in most organizations doesn't have the street cred.

Leighann Lovely 45:19

Well, and unfortunately, HR has become the, the way that the employees look at HR has become up here comes the, you know, the person who's the bad guy, right? The Yeah, when, and I've said this numerous times throughout this, you know, throughout my podcast, nobody started out when, you know, again, you know, I have my degree and with an emphasis in HR, I did not start going to school for human resource management, with the idea that I wanted to be the guard dog for a company, I originally went, because I wanted to be a voice for the people. But it changed human resource in 2008, there was a definite change in, it was a shift, because we used to have huge teams of HR. And we were able to be a voice for the people, because you had, you know, I was on a team of like, seven people. And then I was laid off. And then when, when the economy bounced back, you would have at that same company that had seven HR people, there was one trying to do everything. How was that the person supposed to try to be a voice for the people when they couldn't even keep their head above water in order to get payroll done, benefits done. And, you know, all the other stuff that went along with being HR, right. And we I know that we're trying to get back to that, where that HR person can be a voice for the people, they can be a resource, they can help them. But because a lot of people saw HR now in a different light, it's been a struggle to get back to that. And so you're right, the joke, you know, I, I became the hated HR lady ever below. Here she comes. And I'm like, you know, what?

Kellie Commons 47:16

Never good news. Right? It was right? We're never bringing good news,

Leighann Lovely 47:19

Right? Sign this do this dot, you know, and it was, it's so yes, HR. You know, a lot of people don't want HR around. But they're

Kellie Commons 47:33

And it's interesting that you say like that your degree, you have an emphasis in human resources. My degree is in Hospitality Management, my career was pursued to serve. And, you know, bringing that into human resources, you know, my responsibility was to serve customers, clients, guests. And I was educated with the ideology that whoever does the most for your business, owns your business, runs your business, and that's who you're responsible to serve. So my customer is the employee. Because, you know, there's the old adage, right, like, if you take care of your employees, you never have to worry about the customers, right? It's this, you know, if I take care of our internal customers, if I ensure that we're serving that need, the standards get met, the product goes out, like it's that intrinsic motivation, where people do feel engaged and cared about and served. You know, I've had folks say, I've been in my role now about eight weeks. And I've had a couple of people surprised that I know, on site as many of the people that I know. And remember their stories, and it really is that like front desk of a hotel thing, where it's like that you need that relationship. You know, the same thing learning a roomful of students for me now as quickly as I can, because I need them. Just like a guest in a hotel, just like an employee in my, my organization. I need them to know that they're my priority, right? And now, if you told me three times about your sick kid, and I don't remember, none of our relationship, from your perspective feels authentic. Because to you, it's one to one. To me, there's 500 of you. But that doesn't matter. It's like when your server comes up to a table and fest, sorry, it took so long we're short staffed today. I don't care. Right? You know, because this is the only experience that I'm having today as an employee with one HR person or as a guest with one server. And in that service mindset is so often lost.

Leighann Lovely 49:46

And that's what makes you are different. Because you care, and you take time to show them that you care because you That means the world, to your employees, when you remember the details when you remember what matters to them. Because it's it's never about for your employees, what it comes down to, is how you made them feel. Nobody remembers the specific conversation, you know, six months from now, ultimately, everything in life comes down to how you made them feel at that moment. And when they have a sick kid at home, and they come to you, and they say, I've got to go take care of that. If you make them feel guilty for the fact they have to leave work, they will remember that forever. If you tell them, I completely understand that you gotta go take care of this, go take care of it, don't worry about anything, and you make them feel validated. And you make them feel like nothing matters other than them taking care of their family, at the end of the day, they're going to remember that you made them feel okay about it. And I employers, they, they're so blind to that, if I feel guilty that I have to go take care of my family, or I feel guilty that I have to walk away from work for something. Because it's a personal thing for me. I remember how my employer made me feel when you remember a birthdate or you remember something personal about employee, they remember how you made them feel. It is so wildly important.

Kellie Commons 51:40

You know, as being that that HR fulcrum and still needing to manage the costs and interests of the business, because they're, you know, we do have that responsibility. I think, in those situations where you want to be that employee advocate or go the extra mile or give the thing and you can't, or there's a limitation, having enough respect for members of the workforce across the spectrum to have that conversation around the why is so important. Or when there is a corrective action or policy action that has to be taken, not just delivering that, you know, because that's what the HR ogre does. When she slinks out from underneath the bridge, you want to have that conversation around. Beyond the policy. This is why the policy, or this is why I have to say no, or I do want you to take the time. But understand these, please do take the time. But here's how it impacts the attendance policy. Family is first. Absolutely. But I want you to be prepared that this is the conversation that we have to have right like going that. And that so much of the struggle that I've seen in the difference between white collar work and blue collar work is that folks are more willing or comfortable having those holistic conversations with white collar workers, or will have a conversation with a blue collar worker at a white collar level about something which is worse than not sharing the information in the first place. meet people where they are and give them holistic information.

Leighann Lovely 53:21

Yep. I yeah, I totally agree. And wish we could continue this conversation. But we are coming to time and I want to fit. Yes. I want to ask you the question of the season. So what would you change about your job or the practices that people have in your role? Yeah, if you if you wanted to change anything, or if you could?

Kellie Commons 53:46

I think honestly, we right. Before the question this season, we really touched on that a lot. I think that the thing I would want to change for a lot of HR practitioners is understanding the importance of taking the information that your decisions choices, actions, the company's decision decisions are based on and bringing that information to the team in the way that they can accept it. It is dangerous, especially the longer you're an HR practitioner at a high level. You forget the lingo, the language that you use your comfort level with the information, it's so second nature. That where we where we can control the culture is to have meaningful conversations with people about the things that impact them in a way that they understand. You know, open enrollment is always something that sticks out to me in hospitality and manufacturing. I know a lot of highly educated white collar people who have no idea how their health insurance works. Hmm. So if that's the case, the speed with which and the casual nature or sometimes with which that information is rolled out to folks that may have even less exposure to that information is a great example. Like the things that we just gloss over because we're so comfortable with the information and not understanding. It's like if you have the general manager of a restaurant, train the brand new server, or the brand new busser, it came up in catering, you know, you tell the new person like the shapers, what's the Shaffer? How do I light it? You know, what does that mean? All right. So really meeting people where they are with information is something that I would love to see shifted among a lot of colleagues that have to work across different age groups across different experience levels, across different, like technological abilities, is something that comes up a lot and just having practitioners reconsider where the workforce is to deliver information in a way that it can be received more completely.

Leighann Lovely 56:08

That is an awesome answer. And I completely agree. You are clearly extremely passionate about what you do. And I thank you so much for coming on today. Kelly, if somebody wanted to reach out to you, how would they go about doing that?

Kellie Commons 56:24

LinkedIn is definitely the easiest way to track me down. I am active on LinkedIn, Kellie Commons, Kellie with an I E. But also I am reachable at [e-mail], I love to talk HR almost at an embarrassing level. So I'm always happy to connect with colleagues and HR folks in other disciplines really to just kind of get to build my viewpoint of what's happening so that I can be of service.

Leighann Lovely 56:55

Excellent. Again, Kelly, thank you so much. This has been an amazing conversation. And that's why I love talking to you because I am an HR geek as well.

Kellie Commons 57:03

I love it. It was my pleasure. Happy holidays. Thanks so much for having me. Thank you. Bye bye. Bye.

Leighann Lovely 57:10

Thank you again for listening to Let's Talk HR. I appreciate your time and support without you the audience this would not be possible. So don't forget that if you enjoyed this episode to follow us like us or share us. Have a wonderful day.

Contact Kellie -

LinkedIN – linkedin.com/in/kellie-commons

E-mail – [e-mail]

SUMMARY KEYWORDS

people, hr, hospitality, employees, culture, folks, understand, job, conversation, organization, role, bartender, workforce, paths, years, person, manufacturing, employers, students, industry

Transcribed by https://otter.ai

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