S3 E44: Tommy Preson Phillips: Leaving the Church and Looking for Christ

Liminal Living

Take Away Ideas

• Deconstruction isn’t about losing faith, but about re-centering on Jesus.
• Doubt and curiosity are essential tools in questioning rigid religious structures.
• The power dynamics of church leadership need reevaluation; Christ-like leadership centers on humility and service.
• The shift from religious laws to virtues (like love, peace, and self-control) is essential for spiritual growth.
• The church should create space for dialogue, shared meals, and mutual support to foster genuine community.
• People are drawn to authenticity—leaders who admit their doubts and embrace communal wisdom.

Introduction:
Tommy is introduced as a musician and pastor with a love for art and church life. He shares about his background growing up in a Southern Baptist family, his love for music, and the early influence of church culture.

Journey into Ministry:
Tommy discusses how he found himself leading a church in his early 20s, dealing with church scandals, and eventually growing his congregation into a space for those questioning faith.

Deconstruction and Rebuilding:
Tommy explains his personal deconstruction process, including moments of doubt and skepticism. He talks about how his church evolved after leaving a traditional evangelical denomination.

Church Growth and New Models:
The conversation turns to how Watermark Church functions as a community for both deconstructing Christians and new believers, focusing on shared meals, dialogue, and Christ-like leadership.

Power, Capitalism, and Faith:
Tommy critiques the influence of power and capitalism on modern church structures, contrasting this with the teachings of Jesus, and emphasizing the need for a "cross-shaped" leadership model.

The Role of Doubt and Curiosity:
Tommy highlights how doubt and curiosity are vital for spiritual growth, encouraging open questioning of scripture and long-held beliefs.

The Future of the Church:
The episode ends with a discussion on the future of the church, Tommy's optimism about the current shifts in faith communities, and his belief that God's work is revealed in moments of upheaval.

Links:

• Book: https://www.zondervan.com/p/invisible-jesus/
• Music: https://presonphillips.bandcamp.com/
• Watermark Church: Watermark Church Website
• Substack: https://tommypresonphillips.substack.com

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All Music for this episode composed by Axeltree