e198 tim brodhead - later is too late

conscient podcast

• If we're going to see change happen, it's going to be because people change and that doesn't occur when you preach to them or you evangelize or anything else. It comes because people, in whatever way is appropriate for them, as individuals, begin to reevaluate the way they live, the way their friends live, and make different choices and say to the government, more has to be done. Because what we're losing and what the next generation, our children and grandchildren will lose is immeasurable and we have to act now. Later is too late. So Climate Legacy essentially is trying to identify what are the ways in which you have that conversation with people.

In this episode, former CEO, climate activist and social innovator Tim Brodhead takes us on a reflective journey through his extensive experience in philanthropy and international development.

He shares his evolving perspectives, from initially believing in the capacity of developed countries to aid ‘undeveloped’ nations, to recognizing the often exploitative dynamics at play between wealthy and poorer countries.

This shift has led him to focus on the importance of educating Canadians about the unsustainability of their lifestyles and the need for mutual enlightenment over traditional aid approaches.

When I arrived at Tim home in Metcalfe Ontario, south of Ottawa, I was greeted by a warm, gentle smile and the sweet sound of an antique grandmother clock, whose ticking and bells became a leitmotif throughout our conversation

(Sound of clock)

Tim Brodhead is as accomplished as he is humble. He was president and chief executive officer of the J.W. McConnell Family Foundation from 1995 to 2011. From 2013 to 2014, he served as interim president and chief executive officer of the Pierre Elliott Trudeau Foundation.Prior to joining McConnell, Tim spent 25 years working in international development, mainly in West Africa, South Sudan, India, and Bangladesh. He was the founding executive director of ACORD, based in London, U.K., and in 1975, he co-founded the Canadian development agency Inter Pares which is based here in Ottawa just down the street from my home.

Before our conversation Tim sent me an email with some initial responses to my question about the ‘end of the world as we know it and how to create conditions for new worlds to emerge?’.

He started with a historical perspective :

• Over stretch of a millennium a relatively small community in N-E Europe embarked on some pretty big social experiments: enclosing common lands and the emergence of private ownership as the prime creator of wealth; a splitting of spiritual and material worlds (“Cogito ergo sum”), the conception of private property backed up by State power as the source of personal security, the patriarchal and hierarchical nature of authority, the faith in science and technology as the main drivers of ‘progress’, etc. The experiment unfolded brilliantly for several centuries and material well-being grew by leaps and bounds - along with wars of dispossession, despoiling of the natural environment, yawning inequality in all the markers of human well-being, etc.

He goes on to note some of the failings of modernity :

• But then it emerges that the experiments are failing - the costs outweigh the benefits, the fruits are too unequally divided, the ecosystem is pushed beyond its capacity to assure the essentials of life. The civilization that embodies these experiments begins to undergo a catastrophic failure. This has happened before; civilizations rise and fall. The problem this time is that the process of colonization has produced a global mono-culture. The values, beliefs and institutions that emerged in NE Europe have spread all over the globe; they are called ‘modernity’ and ‘progress’ and those who don’t yet have them aspire to acquire them as fast as possible. The alternative beliefs and understandings - the famous ‘other ways of seeing, knowing and being’ have been stamped out or suppressed. Yes, islands of resistance remain, mostly in Indigenous communities, but they have the status of folklore.

Tim concludes his pre-interview email with this insight about one of the sources of our problems :

• The world-as-we-know-it may be ending but it has some pretty fierce defenders - all those whose wealth and privilege are at risk, plus those who cannot conceive of alternatives, and those who firmly believe that technology still has the power to solve our problems. The media, knowledge and education systems, cultural industries, commercial and advertising are all controlled by those with wealth and power and they all reinforce the fundamental message: This is the way the world works; if you can’t see that, YOU are the problem!

I agree. So what do you suggest we do, Tim?

• We need to rethink and reform and invest in new approaches and we're by and large unwilling to do it. So the need for social innovation is as strong now as it has ever been, but the facile use of language, like everyone is a changemaker, just ignores the fact that this is really hard work.

Ok Tim. Let’s get to work. it’s really a question of time at this point, isn’it?

(Clock continues until one bell is rung)

But wait, what about art? Is it our saving grace or a voice of consolation?

A warning, listeners, near the end of the recording you’ll hear a long silence as we listen together for the 11am ring of the grandmother clock. Enjoy.

It’s July 16th 2024, 10.17 am and we’re in Tim Brodhead’s dining room. Tic toc tic toc…

Tim recommended, in terms of reading Mary Oliver’s suggestion in Instructions for Living a Life : pay attention, be astonished, tell about it.

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Chapters of the podcast (generated by AI, reviewed by Claude Schryer)

Welcome
The conversation begins with a warm welcome as the host introduces Tim Brodhead, setting the stage for a discussion on art and societal themes. The intriguing ticking clock adds an element of anticipation to the dialogue.

Reflections on Development
Tim shares his background in philanthropy and international development, reflecting on the naive perceptions of helping ‘developing’ countries. He discusses the shift from a mindset of helping others to recognizing the need for enlightenment within our own cultures.

The Price of Progress
The conversation delves into the consequences of Western lifestyles on identity and community, highlighting the trade-offs of modernity. Tim emphasizes the loss of solidarity and the cultural erasure experienced by many societies.

Indigenous Wisdom and Reconciliation
Tim discusses the importance of learning from Indigenous cultures and the values they offer in terms of sustainability and respect for the environment. He raises concerns about the appropriation of these values and the challenges of true reconciliation.

A Critical Perspective on Modernity
The conversation shifts to a critique of modernity, revealing how historical narratives have often overlooked the successes of non-Western societies. Tim argues that the dominant worldview has led to a monoculture, erasing valuable alternatives.

The Epidemic of Loneliness
Tim addresses the modern issues of loneliness and spiritual vacuums, suggesting that these problems are a result of the societal choices made over decades. The discussion highlights the need for a deeper understanding of our interconnectedness.

Art’s Role in Society
The host shifts focus to Tim’s relationship with art, exploring how it influences his life and work. Tim expresses his affinity for visual arts and literature, while acknowledging the complexities of art’s role within Western culture.

The Climate Legacy Project
Tim introduces the Climate Legacy Project, aimed at mobilizing older generations to take responsibility for environmental issues. He emphasizes the importance of behavioral change and systemic shifts to address climate challenges.

Conversations for Change
The discussion centers on the importance of personal conversations about climate change, especially among older generations. Tim highlights the need for intergenerational dialogue to inspire action and change.

Indigenous Worldviews and Modernity
Tim contrasts Indigenous perspectives on decision-making with the fast-paced nature of modern culture. He argues for a balance between progress and a deeper understanding of the long-term impacts of our choices.

Empowering Older Generations
The conversation explores the unique role of older women in environmental activism and the importance of their voices in the climate movement. Tim discusses how older generations can leverage their assets and experiences to foster change.

The Power of Financial Choices
Tim emphasizes the responsibility of older generations to question how their financial assets are being used. He advocates for a shift in investment practices to support sustainable and socially responsible initiatives.

The Power of Art in Social Change
In this section, the discussion revolves around the limitations of rational arguments in driving behavioral change regarding biodiversity and the need for art and creativity to engage people on a deeper level, beyond mere reason.

Navigating Social Innovation
The conversation delves into the concept of social innovation, its origins, and the paradox of trying new approaches within a system that often resists change. Tim critiques the overuse of buzzwords like ‘changemaker’ and highlights the challenges of implementing systemic change.

Rethinking Social Systems
This section explores the persistent issues within social systems, such as the penal and healthcare systems, that fail to produce desired outcomes. Tim calls for a reevaluation of approaches and an openness to innovative solutions.

The Complexity of Modern Living
The discussion shifts to the complexities of modern life and the need for simplification, as highlighted by various voices advocating for a slower, more mindful existence. The speaker reflects on the balance between appreciating modern advancements and recognizing their costs.

Time and Reflection
As the clock chimes, the conversation takes a metaphorical turn, comparing the clock’s winding mechanism to the cycles of life and the inevitability of death. This introspective moment leads to a discussion about the significance of time and how it shapes our experiences.

The Art of Reading and Listening
The chapter focuses on the speaker’s passion for reading and the impact of literature on their worldview. They discuss the challenges of managing an overwhelming amount of information and the importance of finding meaningful stories that resonate.

Curating Knowledge in a Digital Age

In the final section, the conversation reflects on the balance between consuming media and engaging with the world around us. The speaker highlights the value of sharing knowledge and stories, emphasizing the importance of meaningful connections in both reading and listening.

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END NOTES FOR ALL EPISODES

I’ve been producing the conscient podcast as a learning and unlearning journey since May 2020 on un-ceded Anishinaabe Algonquin territory (Ottawa). It’s my way to give back and be present.

In parallel with the production of the conscient podcast and it's francophone counterpart, balado conscient, I publish a Substack newsletter called ‘a calm presence' which are 'short, practical essays about collapse acceptance, adaptation, response and art’. To subscribe (free of charge) see https://acalmpresence.substack.com. You'll also find a podcast version of each a calm presence posting on Substack or one your favorite podcast player.

Also, please note that a complete transcript of conscient podcast and balado conscient episodes from season 1 to 4 is available on the web version of this site (not available on podcast apps) here: https://conscient-podcast.simplecast.com/episodes.

Your feedback is always welcome at [e-mail] and/or on conscient podcast social media: Facebook, X, Instagram or Linkedin.

I am grateful and accountable to the earth and the human labour that provided me with the privilege of producing this podcast, including the toxic materials and extractive processes behind the computers, recorders, transportation systems and infrastructure that made this production possible.

Claude Schryer

Latest update on July 20, 2024