Episode 138 Peter Gray on reconsidering what we know about schooling and learning

Lars og Pål

In this podcast episode returning guest Peter Gray, retired professor of psychology at Boston College, makes an argument for why we should consider other ways of understanding and structuring learning in and outside of school. We talk about college and access to working life, possible alternative ways of learning an occupation, David Geary’s evolutionary theory of biologically primary and secondary abilities, what we need to learn and when we need to learn it, what we can observe in kids who aren’t taught in the conventional ways, kids who learn to read on their own or who learn the whole math curriculum in a couple of months in their late teens, how our expectations influence learning, consequences for not reading when society expects you to, how and when children learn to walk and what we do when they don’t, whining in different cultures, the summer slide, and what to say when people complain that they wish that someone had forced them to learn something earlier in life, how children’s independence and autonomy relates to their mental health, how we try to fix problems by taking away children’s liberty and responsibility, why we should teach them about dangers instead of trying to get rid of them, and many other topics.

Even if you don’t find yourself agreeing with all of Peter’s arguments, we would love to hear more about what points he’s making that you think are valid and worth considering. How can we let alternative views on education actually widen our current understanding of learning and schooling, instead of just assuming the worst about each other? Send un an email to [e-mail], we’ll be thankful to every kind of criticism, feedback and suggestions of further explorations and interviews that we should do on these topics.

See more of Peter’s writings on his Substack https://petergray.substack.com/

Here’s his 2017 article about the summer slide, mentioned in the episode: https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/freedom-learn/201707/facts-and-fiction-about-the-so-called-summer-slide

Mentions and recommendations from the episode:

• Jim Rietmulder, 2019. When Kids Rule the School: The Power and Promise of Democratic Education. New Society Publishers.
• Kerry McDonald, 2019. Unschooled: Raising Curious, Well-Educated Children Outside the Conventional Classroom. Chicago Review Press.
• David Graeber og David Wengrow. 2021. The Dawn of Everything: A New History of Humanity. Allen Lane.
• Harriet Pattison. 2016. Rethinking Learning to Read. Educational Heretics Press.
• Elizabeth Marshall Thomas. 2007. The Old Ways: A Story of the First People. Picador.
• danah boyd. 2014. It’s Complicated: The Social Lives of Networked Teens. Yale University Press.
• Peter Gray. 2013. Free to Learn: : Why Unleashing the Instinct to Play Will Make Our Children Happier, More Self-Reliant, and Better Students for Life. Basic Books
• Peter Gray, David Lancy, David F. Bjorklund. 2023. «Decline in Independent Activity as a Cause of Decline in Children’s Mental Wellbeing: Summary of the Evidence» February 2023, The Journal of Pediatrics 260(2)

Peter was previously a guest on the podcast in episode 53:

https://larsogpaal.libsyn.com/episode-53-peter-gray-on-self-directed-education-and-schooling

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