Conversation #120: NotebookLM

Teaching, Learning, and Everything Else

A conversation with NotebookLM. Well, actually it's more of a conversation by NotebookLM, based on 52 previous episodes of this podcast. Well, you'll just have to listen. Facilitated by CAT+FD's Creative Generalist Bart Everson.

Links for this episode:

• NotebookLM (Google)
• Illuminate (a similar experimental product, also from Google)

Transcript:

Bart Everson
This is Bart Everson, Creative Generalist for Faculty Development. I wanted to tell you a little bit about a artificial intelligence platform that you may have heard of. It's NotebookLM. Google's advertising it as an experimental model. They call it a personalized AI collaborator that, and I'm quoting here, "helps you do your best thinking."

The idea is that you upload documents and then it analyzes those slices and dices them in a bunch of different ways. What I find particularly interesting about this platform is that you can upload a voluminous amount of texts, and for example, believe the limit might be 52 sources that you can upload. Each one be a document of, I believe, up to 500,000 words.

Now that's a lot of text, and one of the features of this platform has been that it can make podcasts out of them. Well, that's real funny and amusing, and we're going to take a look at that in a moment, because we can't resist a little fun. But I just want to say that I think the more interesting features of NotebookLM are sometimes overlooked. You can ask all kinds of questions analyzing the documents that you've uploaded, including comparing and contrasting different themes with this really rich set of features.

For example, you could upload an essay by a scholar in some — who's doing work that's adjacent to yours, and upload some of your own work and look for a comparison between the two. I mean, looking for common themes. It's even more interesting, I suppose, if the scholar is far afield from what you do. It's got a chat interface so you can just ask questions, but there's all kinds of built in prompts and buttons to press, and I just encourage you to explore around with it, if you like.

It's not just, you know, PDFs that you can upload here. You can put in URLs, and even you can throw up some audio files. So what we did was we took, you know — since we have over 100 episodes of this podcast, we thought it would be interesting to see what kind of podcast NotebookLM generated from our previous episodes. Of course, we have a lot more than the limit allows. So I uploaded 52 randomly selected episodes, and after a bit of hit and miss, I asked the podcast hosts, these artificial people, to focus on critical thinking as a theme, you know, that kind of predominates many of these episodes.

Well, here's what they came up with.

Male Host
Welcome back everybody. Ready for another deep dive?

Female Host
Absolutely, always excited to see what sources we're tackling today.

Male Host
Well, this time, it's all about education, more specifically learning. You know how to learn and how to think better. All that good stuff.

Female Host
Sounds right up our alley?

Male Host
Yeah. And the listeners sent over this fascinating collection of sources. We've got interviews with professors, some research papers, even a few personal anecdotes. A lot to unpack here.

Female Host
Yeah, real mix. But you know what's interesting? Even though these sources are all over the place, there's this underlying theme connecting them, this idea of how we learn and how we can be better thinkers.

Male Host
You hit the nail on the head. That's exactly what struck me, too. It's like a puzzle with all these different pieces, but they fit together to create this bigger picture of how we approach learning and thinking. So let's dive right in.

Female Host
Sounds good to me.

We'll start with these interviews from professors talk about diverse perspectives. Each one has a unique teaching style and philosophy, like one professor really stood out, uses humor to challenge students and create this really rigorous learning environment. You wouldn't think those two things go together, but apparently it's super effective.

Female Host
Yeah, reminds us that engagement doesn't mean it can't be challenging.

Male Host
Exactly. And then we have this other professor who's all about reading across the curriculum. Them arguing that, no matter what you're studying, being able to read and analyze text is crucial.

Female Host
Can't argue with that those skills are fundamental, no matter what field you're in.

Male Host
Absolutely. and of course, we can't ignore the elephant in the room, online learning. It's everywhere these days.

Female Host
Right. Some of the professors are excited about the possibilities, you know, using multimedia and having access to experts from all over the world, but others are worried about the downsides, like distractions and keeping students focused. It's a real mixed bag.

Male Host
It is, what about you? What's your experience with online learning been like?

Female Host
Honestly, it's a bit of both. I've had some amazing online learning experiences that were engaging and really well designed, but I've also had some that felt, I don't know, kind of superficial. I think it really comes down to how much effort both the instructor and the student are putting in.

Male Host
Totally agree, which actually brings us to our next topic, the impact of technology. One of the research papers you sent looks at multitasking and how all this tech is affecting our attention spans. And let me tell you, the findings are kind of scary.

Female Host
Oh, yeah, definitely. Some food for thought.

Male Host
People switch activities every three minutes on average. Can you believe that? Yeah, and they only spend like, 10 and a half minutes in a single quote, unquote, working sphere before jumping to something else. Makes you wonder how much we're actually absorbing.

Female Host
I know, right, with all these notifications and distractions, it's tough to stay focused on one thing for very long. What about you? Do you have any strategies for managing all that and staying on task?

Male Host
Honestly, I'm still figuring it out, but I think being mindful of how we use technology is key, like setting boundaries, maybe turning off notifications, creating dedicated workspaces, things like that.

Female Host
Definitely small steps can make a big difference totally. But here's

Male Host
the thing, even though interruptions seem bad for productivity, the research found that they can actually make people work faster, really.

Female Host
Yeah, that's interesting. It's like the pressure of an interruption forces you to focus in short bursts.

Male Host
Exactly, but there's a catch, right? It might make you work faster, but it can also lead to stress and burnout, and who knows about the quality of work when you're rushing?

Female Host
Yeah, that's a good point. It's not always about speed, especially when it comes to deep learning and critical thinking, sometimes you need to slow down and really process things

Male Host
Right exactly. And that makes me think about how we measure learning in the first place, which is what this next study is all about. It looks at great inflation, and get this, it spans like 70 years of data.

Female Host
Wow, that's a long time.

Male Host
I know it's fascinating. And the researchers found that there were these two major waves of great inflation, one in the 60s and another in the 80s. They think the second wave might be connected to the rise of student evaluations and this whole idea of students as like consumers of education.

Female Host
Interesting. So instead of seeing themselves as learners who are actively engaged in the process, it's more like they're purchasing a product a degree.

Male Host
Exactly, and they're expecting a certain return on their investment, which in this case would be good grades. It really was you think of the purpose of education, you know, are we focused on grades and credentials, or are we trying to cultivate a love of learning and a desire to really understand the world?

Female Host
Yeah, big questions, and it's not an easy answer, yeah, but I think it's a conversation worth having.

Male Host
For sure. So maybe we need to think beyond traditional classrooms and grades. What about those articles on service learning?

Female Host
Oh, yeah, that's a really interesting approach. It's all about connecting learning to real world experiences.

Male Host
Like that example, where students interviewed people at a soup kitchen. They weren't just reading about poverty in a textbook, they were actually engaging with people who were experiencing it firsthand, exactly.

Female Host
And that can be incredibly powerful. It's one thing to understand a concept intellectually, but as a whole other level, when you can connect it to real people and real world situations.

Male Host
I totally agree, and it's not just about doing good deeds. There's this emphasis on reflection and critical analysis, like one professor even challenged students to think about the social justice implications of their service learning experiences.

Bart Everson
All right, okay, so hold on to your hats, folks. No, there's nothing wrong with the — I'm just speeding things up. I hope you don't mind. It's just getting a little bit repetitive. And of course, this just goes on and on. And I thought, in the interest of time, I'd just speed it up. But don't worry, I'll set you back down right about here.

Male Host
—like that professor who had students create PowerPoint presentations showcasing their research on the history and culture the Isleños community, almost as if they were creating a museum exhibit. That's so cool.

Female Host
I know it's a great example of how assessment can be integrated into a real world context, giving students a chance to apply their knowledge and skills in a meaningful way.

Male Host
And it's not just about the final product, right? It's about the. Process of research collaboration, critical thinking and creative problem solving that goes into it

Female Host
Exactly. It's about the learning journey itself, not just the destination.

Male Host
But authentic assessment can be tricky to implement, right? It requires a lot of planning and careful consideration.

Female Host
It does we need to be clear about our learning goals, develop rubrics that reflect those goals, and be willing to embrace the messiness and unpredictability of real world learning.

Male Host
It's a shift in mindset, for sure, both for educators and for students, right?

Female Host
We need to move away from seeing assessment as simply a way to measure achievement and embrace it as a tool for learning and growth.

Male Host
It's about recognizing that learning is a continuous process, and assessment should be part of that process.

Female Host
And it's about recognizing that success looks different for every student. We need to create assessments that are flexible allow for multiple pathways to demonstrate understanding and value the unique strengths and challenges of each learner.

Male Host
So we've talked about critical thinking, technology, mentorship and even assessment. But there's one more layer to this conversation that I think we need to acknowledge the power of individual stories.

Female Host
Yes, all of these sources we've been looking at are full of personal anecdotes, student experiences and faculty perspectives. Those stories really bring these abstract ideas to life.

Male Host
They make them relatable and help us connect with the human experience behind the theories and the research.

Female Host
Exactly. Stories have the power to connect us, inspire us, and help us see the world through different eyes.

Male Host
It's a reminder that everyone comes to the learning process with their own unique background, their own experiences, their own challenges, and by creating space for those stories to be shared and heard, we create a richer and more inclusive learning environment for everyone.

Female Host
It's about valuing that diversity of perspectives and recognizing that every individual has something valuable to contribute.

Male Host
And that recognition that understanding of the human element of learning is so crucial for fostering empathy and compassion, and those qualities are more important than ever in today's world,

Female Host
Absolutely, several of the sources emphasize the importance of empathy and compassion in education, whether it's through service, learning, community engagement or simply creating a classroom culture of respect and understanding, those experiences help us broaden our worldview and deepen our appreciation for the interconnectedness of humanity.

Male Host
It's like expanding our circle of concern beyond ourselves to encompass a wider community, a wider world.

Female Host
Precisely, and that expanded sense of empathy and compassion is crucial for tackling those complex global challenges we face.

Male Host
It's about recognizing that we're all in this together, and we have a responsibility to look out for each other and work toward a more just and equitable world.

Female Host
And that sense of responsibility, that commitment to social justice, is inextricably linked to critical thinking. It's about using our knowledge and understanding to make informed decisions, to challenge injustice and to create positive change.

Male Host
So we've covered a lot of ground in this deep dive, from the classroom to the community to the global stage, but it feels like we've only just scratched the surface.

Female Host
We have there's always more to explore, but I think we've laid a good foundation.

Male Host
We've explored the multi faceted nature of critical thinking, the evolving role of technology and education, the power of mentorship and individual stories, and the importance of creating learning environments that foster empathy, compassion and a sense of social responsibility.

Female Host
It's a lot to think about, but that's what critical thinking is all about. It's about engaging in continuous learning, challenging assumptions and seeking deeper understanding.

Male Host
Let's take a quick break and come back to reflect on some of these key insights and explore what all of this means for our own lives and journeys as learners.

Bart Everson
Oh, all right, hey, it's me again. Bart, you're still with me? Yeah, they rambled on a bit there, didn't they? But of course, they're covering literally dozens of episodes, so there was kind of a lot to talk about. And yes, it was a bit rembly. But given the topic matter, you know, it's hard, hard to avoid. So I thought, All things considered, they did a pretty good job. I'm referring to them as if they're real people. But of course, that's not the case. It's just generated by, you know, it sounds very realistic at times, but it's really just all generated by the NotebookLM, artificial intelligence program. Well, let's see how they wrap it all up. Shall we? It was so nice of them to give me that little break.

Male Host
Okay, so we've spent all this time talking about critical thinking and how to be better learners. But what does it all really mean? Like, how do we actually take all these ideas and apply them to our own lives?

Female Host
I think that's the million dollar question, right? It's one thing to talk about these concepts, but it's another to actually put them into practice totally so where do we even begin? Well. Think it starts with that willingness to be open minded, to question assumptions and to embrace the fact that learning is a lifelong process. It's not like we just graduate from school and we're done right?

Male Host
It's about staying curious and being open to new ideas and perspectives, even if they challenge our existing beliefs Exactly.

Female Host
And I think a big part of that is recognizing that we all have biases. We all come to the table with our own set of experiences and perspectives that shape how we see the world, and being aware of those biases is the first step towards thinking more critically and objectively.

Male Host
It's like we have to be willing to constantly examine our own thinking, to ask ourselves, why do I believe this? What evidence supports this claim. Am I being influenced by my emotions or my preconceived notions

Female Host
Exactly? And that kind of self reflection can be really uncomfortable sometimes, but it's also incredibly valuable, because it allows us to identify those blind spots, those areas where our thinking might be clouded by our own biases or assumptions.

Male Host
It's like we're shining a light on those dark corners of our minds and saying, Okay, let's take a closer look at what's going on here.

Female Host
And once we've done that, once we've acknowledged our own biases, we can start to be more open to other perspectives, to consider alternative explanations, to entertain the possibility that we might be wrong,

Male Host
and that willingness to be wrong, to admit that we don't have all the answers, is essential for growth, right? I mean, if we're always clinging to our own beliefs, how can we ever learn anything new?

Female Host
Exactly, learning requires humility. It requires that willingness to let go of our cherished beliefs when they're no longer serving us.

Male Host
And that can be tough. It's like we have to be willing to unlearn some of the things we thought we knew.

Female Host
It is tough, but it's also incredibly liberating, because when we let go of those rigid beliefs, we open ourselves up to a whole new world of possibilities.

Male Host
And that's what critical thinking is all about, right? It's about expanding our minds, challenging our assumptions, and constantly seeking deeper understanding.

Female Host
Exactly. It's about being curious, being skeptical and being willing to engage in that process of intellectual exploration even when it's uncomfortable or challenging.

Male Host
It's about embracing the messiness of learning and recognizing that there are no easy answers, right?

Female Host
There's no magic formula for becoming a critical thinker. It's an ongoing process that requires effort…

Male Host
And practice, but it's a process that's worth it, because ultimately, critical thinking empowers us to make better decisions, to solve problems more effectively and to live more meaningful and fulfilling lives.

Female Host
Couldn't agree more, it's about becoming more informed, more engaged and more responsible citizens of the world…

Male Host
And that's a pretty great goal to strive for.

Female Host
Well, I think we've covered a lot of ground today. We've explored the complexities of critical thinking, the challenges and opportunities of the digital age, the power of mentorship and individual stories, and the importance of creating learning environments that foster empathy, compassion and a sense of social responsibility.

Male Host
It's been a rich and thought provoking conversation, and I hope our listeners are leaving feeling inspired and empowered to embrace the power of critical thinking in their own lives.

Female Host
Me too. So keep those minds sharp, stay curious and never stop learning.

Male Host
And remember the world needs your critical thinking skills now more than ever, so go out there and make a difference.

Female Host
Thanks for joining us for this deep dive, everyone. We'll catch you next time.

Bart Everson
All right. Well, there you have it. Lots of thoughts, if you can call them thoughts when they come from an artificial intelligence, lots of thoughts about our thoughts about critical thinking, as reflected in over 50 episodes of this podcast, which has been running for so many years. Again, I wanted to reiterate that this is from NotebookLM, and I've noticed all of the attention NotebookLM gets for this podcast feature because it's fun and goofy and weird, but as a lot of other features. So I'd encourage you to take a look at NotebookLM, if you're into that kind of thing, feature some documents and see what it can do. It's much more than just AI podcasts, anyhow, until next time. Thanks for listening. This is Bart Everson.