The Delusional Winning Strategy?

Tough Things First

Money is not everything, but if you want it, are creative, and a bit delusional, you have a shot and being more than lucky. In this Tough Things First podcast, Ray Zinn points out the difference between a healthy delusion and being downright crazy.

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Rob Artigo: You’ve probably heard of tennis star, Coco Gauff. [inaudible 00:00:17] she’s a major champion tennis star and she’s using that fame, which probably based on good advice, to take some of the money she’s got and the influence that she has, and she’s using it to parlay that into a billion-dollar entrepreneurial endeavor, which is probably a combination of businesses. I didn’t look closely at it, but I’m assuming that’s what that is. Usually that’s the case for the athletes that are operating smartly, but she actually recently encouraged people of her age who have similar goals to be delusional.

So look at the definition of delusion versus likely meaning behind her advice. I think there might be a little disconnect between the actual definition and what she said. So there’s delusional, and then there’s risk, favored by risk-takers not gamblers. And I guess that’s one way that I would put it. So when it comes to ideas, she says, don’t be afraid to be delusional. So then I’ll give you the quote, “I think delusional is great.” Now, forgive her syntax there. “I think delusional is great,” Gauff tells Forbes, that’s where I got the quote, “All of the great athletes and greatest artists have to be a little of craziness and delusion. Having a little bit of crazy in your goal is kind of healthy.” What do you think?

Ray Zinn: Well, again, it’s that syntax. Delusional, in the definition of the word, delusional, is believing something that is not possible. In other words, you say, “Well, I can jump off of the Golden Gate Bridge, and hit the water, and not die.” That’s delusional her. What she’s trying to say is that be a little crazy. Jumping off the Golden Gate Bridge is crazy, okay, especially if you don’t have something to protect you as you hit the water. Being a little crazy, I think she’s just trying to be a little bit obtuse here by referring to that word, delusional, as being something that we should endeavor, because there are people who will not take any risk at all. In other words, you still see people going around with masks on their face after the pandemic because they don’t want to take a risk of catching COVID or they don’t go out in public. They’re so used to staying at home now and staying secluded that they don’t go out at all because they don’t want to take a risk.

Well, that’s a risk in and of itself because now you’re not going to go anywhere. You’re not going to progress, but on the other hand, the pendulum can swing too far, delusional, meaning like Bitcoin or one of those things that is highly risky to me, in my view, that’s a little delusional. Other words, but people have made money on Bitcoin and other ventures, or going to Las Vegas and putting it all on a table. To believe you’re not going to lose any money going to Las Vegas is delusional, but there are people who have made lots of money. Las Vegas wouldn’t exist as an entity if it weren’t for the delusional belief that you can make a lot of money in Las Vegas. That’s a little crazy. But there are people who literally believe that they can make a fortune just by going to Las Vegas.

Rob Artigo: Yeah, a delusional person believes things that couldn’t possibly be true. And I heard you say was that there are also those people who believe that nothing is possible.

Ray Zinn: Right.

Rob Artigo: So they put a wall in front of themselves on everything. But like you said, I prefer that they be a little bit crazy as opposed to saying, “Be delusional.” Because really being delusional is a little bit more towards, go ahead and believe that things that are impossible are possible.

Ray Zinn: [inaudible 00:04:37].

Rob Artigo: Like you said, surviving a dip in a bath of hot lava or something like that.

Ray Zinn: Well, let me ask you, is being crazy, smart? Can you answer that question?

Rob Artigo: No. No, I think being a little crazy in that if you are willing to, if you’re being a creative person and you’re taking some chances, and people would say, “Oh, that’s not going to work, that’s impossible. That’s not going to work.” And then you go, “Well, okay, call me crazy, but I’m going to give it a try.” So that’s the crazy that I’m talking about, and I think it might be the crazy she’s talking about.

Ray Zinn: Well, I know that. Just saying [inaudible 00:05:14] is smart being crazy or crazy being smart?

Rob Artigo: I don’t know. I think I’d have to answer that question, yes or no to the question would be, no, being crazy is not smart.

Ray Zinn: Yeah. So if you look at the definition of being crazy, that’s nuts, okay? We [inaudible 00:05:32] that’s nutty, okay? If you’re being crazy, you’re being nutty. So everybody has their own risk aversion level. And so if you’re a person who is really risk-adverse and you do anything that’s risky, that’s crazy, okay, as a person who’s risk-adverse. So you got to look at your level of risk-averseness and decide how much risk are you willing to take? Are there people who do are crazy and put a little craziness into their investments? Yes, and they do well, but again, you’re gambling. And if you’re a gambler, that’s called being a little crazy as a gambler. That’s what a gambler is. A gambler is a crazy person. And so everybody has to look at their own level of risk-taking and decide if it’s good for them, and if you’re willing to bet the farm, then go for it.

What Coco is referring to is that being a little delusional as opposed to being a non-risk-taker, is what we need to go for. In other words, be willing to take a risk. That’s what she’s talking about. Get off the couch with your potato chips and go do something. Get a little crazy at times. And when I started Micrel back in 1978, all my good friends, and I’ll call them good friends, said, “You’re crazy.” I started Micrel with no money basically, which was a semiconductor company in Silicon Valley. And I started with my own money, but very little money and people said, “You can’t start a company with no money or very little money.” And so that just convinced me that I should, because if they said it can’t be done, that’s what I wanted to do.

Now, was I delusional? In their mind, I was very delusional. In my mind, no, I wasn’t delusional at all. I was confident I could make it happen. And yet in their mind, those friends of mines that looked at what I was trying to do, they were trying to help me and say, “Hey Ray, you’re crazy. You can’t do that. There’s no semiconductor company ever started with no money.” And I said, “Well, I’ll be the first.” So that’s what I did. I started a very successful semiconductor company, virtually no money. [inaudible 00:08:13]-

Rob Artigo: It did very well for a long time.

Ray Zinn: Yeah, well, it’s been sold, but it’s still doing well if you look at the company that acquired it. But again, I wouldn’t be Silicon Valley’s longest serving CEO if I wasn’t a little bit crazy, because I did something that, my friends said, couldn’t be done.

Rob Artigo: Right, crazy’s in the eye of the beholder. The last example is of course, based on the same example you gave, which is Elon Musk and SpaceX. To some people, he’s crazy, some people he’s delusional, but to Elon, he’s a risk-taker, and that risk is apparently paying off quite well because he’s had a lot of… Space-wise, they’ve done some amazing things that are just unbelievable and yet real, and so I guess whether you’re crazy or delusional, depends on the… Crazy, delusional or just a creative person is all in the eye of the beholder.

Ray Zinn: Well, in high school, I ran track and first I was just doing the 100-yard dash, and the broad jump, and that sort of thing, but I decided I was going to try out the hurdles. And my coach said, “You’re crazy. You’re too short. You need to be a taller person to run the hurdles.” So that convinced me that I should run the hurdles. So this was back when I was this teenager and I was very successful. I took fourth in the state in 1955, running the hurdles. And so, yeah, I’m very short. Those of you who know me, I’m not a tall person. And of course it was difficult running the hurdles, especially the high hurdles, because I had to alternate legs, and that means I had to be able to hurdle with either leg, which was very difficult to do, but I was convinced I could do it.

So was I crazy running the hurdles? No, in the sense the word, if I was willing to put forth the effort, like when I started Micrel with no money. I was willing to put forth the effort to be successful. So you might be delusional in other people’s minds, but if you’re willing to put forth the effort, you’re not being delusional. Now, that’s not gambling because gambling you don’t have control over, but if you have control over whatever your pursuit you’re going to have. Whether it be running the hurdles, or trying to get some other education that are difficult to do, or some of their occupation, as long as you have control over it, you’re not delusional.

Rob Artigo: Well, Ray, as always, our listeners can reach out to you with their questions at toughthingsfirst.com. They can continue their education and the conversation with all the podcasts, the blogs, links to your social media, and of course, there’s information about Tough Things First, the book, and also the series, the Zen of Zinn. Thanks, Ray.

Ray Zinn: Thanks, Rob. Good to be with you.