Crooked Water Spirits

Dishing with Stephanie's Dish

Welcome to another episode of "Dishing with Stephanie's Dish." On February 6, at The Lexington in St Paul, we are hosting a Makers of Minnesota 4-course paired cocktail dinner featuring Crooked Water Spirits founded by Heather Manley.

This woman-owned, Minnesota-made spirits company is bringing luxury spirits to our bars and tables and, in the case of the “Manleys Old Fashioned”, our Sun Country flights!

Episode Transcript Follows:

Stephanie [00:00:15]:

Hello, everybody, and welcome to the podcast. I'm excited to have you here with me today. I am talking with I call her my friend Heather. I call her my friend Heather on all the things. My friend Heather Manley, who is originally crossed my path as a spicemaker and has Heather dirty goodness spices, which I'm still crazy about. And then, she took her progression into her professional life with on demand group. And from there, decided, hey. I'm not busy enough.

2 companies, why not have a third? And started Crooked Water Spirits. And Crooked Water Spirits is women owned and is currently being produced in, Minnesota. So it's Minnesota maker. Minnesota. And You just have really let me Heather, welcome to the program. I I feel, like, so proud of you.

Heather Manley [00:01:11]:

Aw. Thank you.

Stephanie [00:01:12]:

Yeah. You just you, like, from the time I met you, have this maker spirit, this entrepreneurial spirit, And you let no grass grow. Like, when you wanna do something, you just do it, and I admire that so much. Where did you get that energy from?

Heather Manley [00:01:31]:

You know, I don't know. I think it's like a it's a work ethic, and, I'll tell you in college, I didn't know it was Funny to have 10 w twos a year. I didn't know that was funny. I didn't have a work ethic in college. I I I wanted to go party, work to party, Go party. Work again.

Stephanie [00:01:48]:

Yeah.

Heather Manley [00:01:49]:

And then the second I graduated, I think my parents my my my mom and my dad, they own their own business. An entrepreneurial grandfather, and, I saw how hard they work. I know I wanted their life for better. And the like, literally, the month I graduated, it was like a switch. And and then I just I wanted to work. I love to work. And, and all of a sudden, I didn't wanna sit still, and I just wanted to build. And and people build a lot faster and a lot better than I do, but I do it at my capacity and how I can do it and the pace I can do it, and, and I love it.

Stephanie [00:02:26]:

When you started in food and the food world, liquor world, what was it about that industry in particular that appealed to you?

Heather Manley [00:02:36]:

Well, my passions are family food and booze. I've said that since I was in college. So the the tech company is family. The Heather's Dirty Goodness is food and Crooked Waters is booze. And at some point, I'll love to make a wine because I wanna drink really nice wine at cost. But, like, I'm driven by all that. So and it's a very, sometimes, shallow life because I'm very easily pleased with, like, stunning food And amazing cocktails and, always the conversation has to be better than all of that, and it's like the perfect It's the perfect day for me. It literally fills my bucket.

Heather Manley [00:03:11]:

So from travel to how I spend my time to the businesses I started, they all surround that, and they're all definitely in varying levels of success, but all passion, which makes it all fun.

Stephanie [00:03:24]:

I love that you're unapologetic about saying that Because when you talk about, you know, like, someone said called it my hobby life. And I was like, yeah. I guess it is my hobby life, but it's also like my work life, my life life, like my everything life. It's what makes me get out of bed every morning is thinking about What I'm gonna eat that day or some cool new cheese that I know that someone's preparing or, The wine that I get to have later on because I'm going to a multi course dinner, like, it's not shallow. It's fun. It's not.

Heather Manley [00:04:00]:

It is. It's and it you know what? And we're curious. We're just curious in different areas than other people. Like, I love going to a grocery store. Literally, I will not go with my SO with Rhett because he will be like, we're on a time line. You said you needed 10 things. Why are you looking at this? This is not on the list. So I'm like, This is something new, and I'm very excited about it, and it's like affordable splurges.

Heather Manley [00:04:22]:

But I I was chatting with somebody again, And he really shared that, like, his work was a means to an end, and priority was family and, and some hobbies. And I'm like, I to me, it's like, Jesus. That's really hard when, like, 10 hours of your day and no doubt the weekends And your whole of what you're building and doing, if if it's not based on something you love or it's not a means to end, it is a job. That sucks. So I feel very lucky that I get to choose what I wanted. We all get the choice. I'm I feel very lucky that I've made that choice, and that I know what I love.

Stephanie [00:05:02]:

So let us because I can see, like, looking and thinking, oh, spices. Yeah. I've got these blends. Like, I can do that. I can buy bulk spices and but you, like, took that a lot further with Crooked Water and creating your own spirit company. And, I mean, how did you figure out what you were even supposed to do to get that started?

Heather Manley [00:05:25]:

Let's be clear, there's no money in spices. So we all know that. No one's ever I mean, it's just it's more expensive the higher quality, Less salt, the high the more expensive. People aren't used to spending that, and it's okay. You just gotta call it. I know I know what it is, And that was kind of my 1st POC, b to c, business to consumer, proof of concept. I learned a lot in that whole journey. So it wasn't even that failure in a lot of air areas brought a lot of wealth of knowledge on how to do it better.

Heather Manley [00:05:56]:

With booze, I mean, I still don't know what I'm doing. I just got off my the call with Johnson Brothers with Emery. And I'm like, what? I go, this doesn't exist, but what do you think of this? And he's like, I have no idea. And I'm like, yeah. I don't even know if I can legally do this, but let's maybe explore. Right? And it's and it's the curiosity That I think is a differentiator. Our ability to have the pallet in house. We don't outsource anything.

Heather Manley [00:06:21]:

Also makes it really Feasible to do something like this and the creative in house. So, you know, Rhett and I, knowing each other since art school, we Can make these beautiful labels. I I know how to, get corks made out of Germany that are fire branded and our investment back into the brand because we don't take any profits out of the brand. We still, in year, oh my god, 8? I mean, or 10? 10. We still reinvest every effing sent back into the company because I'm more excited to see how that money can make it grow than I am about putting it in my pocket. But it's also like I I know how to cook. And when you know how to cook, you know how to put flavors together. You work with people who are willing to also be curious or take chances or Give you the time to, create and innovate.

Heather Manley [00:07:11]:

And I started with just cold calling 10 distilleries and ended up with, At the end of the day now, 2 in Minnesota, but people that were willing to give me an opportunity to leverage their talent, leverage their infrastructure, Use my recipes, and it's just kind of evolved from there. But you don't need to know what you're doing. I mean, what's the worst? That you have a shitty liqueur that you give to all your friends for a year? I mean, it's True. Still alcohol at the end of the day. It doesn't suck.

Stephanie [00:07:39]:

True. But nobody else would think about it like that except for you, which makes me laugh. Because you're like, yeah. Like, everybody thinks like this. I'm like, no. No. They don't. Okay.

Stephanie [00:07:49]:

Take us through the 1st Crooked Water flavor all the way to where you're at today. So,

Heather Manley [00:07:59]:

when ODG when I came into it, it was broke. It well, not broke, but it Ten people. Right? Like, I think even after 4 months in the tech business, we were in the red, and that's where Sean and I said, okay. Let's strategize. What what are we doing? Where are we going? And in saying that, we needed to rebrand, knowing Rhett. We we weren't even dating that. Well, no. We weren't dating then.

Heather Manley [00:08:20]:

And I asked them to rebrand, but we had really no money for marketing or design services and all the iterations that need to happen in rebranding. So I paid them in a very high end scotch, And I had a really beautiful collection overdoing 2 to 3 bottles a month for a year. I realized, After, hearing about Gamel Ode and their beautiful De La Aquavit, it helped me understand the beaut like, the beauty of craft of micro versus macro. And when I sat and thought, what could I bring to market that nobody's doing? I looked up, and all of my favorite scotches and I drink I drank a lot of scotch in college, which is hilarious, hence the, you know, 10 w twos a year. And I realized that all my favorite scotches were Task finished, and nobody was doing that that I could find, in the country for Sherry and only 1 company for Port. So that's how I decided to come up with Kings Point In Lost Lake, I found a broker out of Colorado to find me a stunning $700 casks. I interviewed a dozen people, ended up at Yahara. We executed that.

Heather Manley [00:09:23]:

Sold out in, like, 3 days or or like and it was very small amount of bourbon. But it's sold out. We're I think we're the 1st to formally launch in the States, and from there, it was like, oh, s**t. This could be Business. I didn't really think about it. I was just having fun, and how stupid. Like, I didn't realize how liquor stores would be pissed off that I didn't have any more product for them because they made room to put my you on there. I mean, just very naive.

Heather Manley [00:09:48]:

I think there's beauty in being naive because you don't know what you can't do. Right? But definitely lessons learned. So Once I sold out of everything, I I was like, oh, okay. This could be a business. Now what do I need to do? I don't have any investors. I don't have any debt, But I slowly built my barrel program, so we're still small. We're like a couple 100 barrels. And while I was building that, I launched the aged vodka, which we don't even sell anymore, because it was just different fun.

Heather Manley [00:10:15]:

Nobody was doing it, and it it was more of an educational tool. And then I launched Sundog, which is our number one selling gin, citrus, forward. If you hate gin, you won't hate this because it's really like a citrusy vodka. Then we made Abyss, And then, you know, now we have QuadCast finished up with brandy, and espresso ready to pour. We're the 1st ready to pour to launch in Minnesota, which is insane to think about now. We make a boulevard EA that nobody knows about, apparently, from my sales records nor my Negroni. Very boutique y. Like, a 100 cases of each of those a year.

Heather Manley [00:10:48]:

I know about it. Yeah. Well, thank you. I haven't really pushed them because we we're we moved distilleries, but this year will be a big year of just evangelizing those because They're beautiful. I'm super proud of them, but I think we have really 12 or 11 SKUs, including the 50 mils that are on the plains and some 200 mils. And now it's really more about it's really noisy with the THC and, Bigger brands coming in with a lot more money, and a lot of SKUs can be very confusing. So now we're just focusing on maybe a subset of, like, 5 5 really core products, And then that's what we'll be really pushing in 2024 and 2025.

Stephanie [00:11:27]:

I like that strategy. It always tickles me when I'm on a Sun Country flight, And they asked me what I want, and I always say that I would like the manly old fashioned.

Heather Manley [00:11:37]:

Thank you.

Stephanie [00:11:38]:

And then I tell everybody around me, this is my friend Heather's cocktail. And they get really jazzed about it, and then they order it too. And then they, like, take their 1st sip, and they'll look over, and they'll be like, oh, this is really good.

Heather Manley [00:11:52]:

Oh, that just melts my heart. Thank you for that. I appreciate it. And, like, like, I mean, for that old fashioned I mean, I made it like Parler, like Marvel, like Constantine. I partner with Angostura. I partner with Bitter Q for their bitters. I use a 3 year, at least, Bourbon in there. A lot of times, foyer.

Heather Manley [00:12:11]:

I use demerara. I mean, there's all these things that there's no corner skirted. Even though Everyone's tried to persuade me to do that to save money. I will not because I wanna drink it, and I don't make s**t. And so I wanna make things that I'm proud about. If I wanted to build a company and sell it with a skinny girl b s product, I could have done that already, but I would not be able to look you in the face and say support me.

Stephanie [00:12:35]:

Yeah. And support you, I'm very proud to do. We are having a dinner, and we're coming out of the Dry January, which a lot of people I read that, like them. 33%, though, This year versus, like, 22% last year, and many people are doing, like, damp or moist January, which is fine.

Heather Manley [00:12:59]:

Moist. Yeah.

Stephanie [00:13:00]:

Moist. Yes. Very moist January. But we're gonna be coming out of dry January, rolling heavy and hard right into February 6th At the Lexington, we're having a 4 course dinner. You will be able to get, have we determined I don't even know if we Finally determine what the cocktail is that the Lex will be featuring all of February.

Heather Manley [00:13:22]:

Yes. Oh, no. I don't know. I'm I'm hoping it's The Sundog product because that's, like, one of my favorite patio pounding cocktails. He added mint to it as well, which I think would be beautiful and kind of we're all a little desperate for spring, so I'm hoping that's up the menu. But that will be the, I think, the first drink that we have on the tasting menu.

Stephanie [00:13:41]:

And do you know the other 3? I hate to put you on the spot.

Heather Manley [00:13:45]:

1 will be, coffee old fashioned, And 1 will have, 1 I have no idea, but I also know it has our rye in it. 1 will be a bourbon cocktail, And then, I think we said screw vodka because right? You mean

Stephanie [00:14:04]:

Yeah. You can do vlogging at home.

Heather Manley [00:14:07]:

I think it's 2 gins. Oh, it's a gin. It's a bourbon. It's our quad cast gavel brandy, and it's an old fashioned.

Stephanie [00:14:13]:

Perfect. Yeah. And we will be pairing each of those with courses that chef has designed for us. This is a $120 ticket, but you'll walk away with Four cocktails and a beautiful course meal. And what I think is so special about these dinners is People will get to hear you tell your story. They'll get to ask you questions. You're right there. The the attendance is capped at 50.

Stephanie [00:14:38]:

So it's a small intimate group in the Lexington. We're in kind of their, Williamsburg room, which is where they have the jazz normally. And it's just it's really pretty, and it's a nice opportunity to get in front of some of your favorite makers. When I've gone to dinners in the past and, you know, you have multiple courses, I love having one point of view from a spirit perspective because We kinda get to take, you get to take us on this journey all the way through all of your recorded water influences, How, you started with 1 and how you ended up with another, it's really a a fun thing to do. Is it more challenging in the environment with some of the taste changing with THC? Or is it just always kinda the same game and there's always something new and different?

Heather Manley [00:15:31]:

I think it's always something new and different. I think we're 25% down in off prem just because I think of THC and people not drinking as much, But then we're up 30% on prem. Right? And and the year before, we're up a 100% on prem and Up 30 you know, it's just it's always all over the board pending on what the trends are. You know, I think THC will probably get more regulated. I hope it you know, I don't I don't do it, so I don't really pay attention to it, but for sure, I know reps are saying that they're just seeing it kind of just fly off the shelves. I like to manage my buzz, and I think with THC, it's like you're in it, and you're in it for, like, 2 or 3 hours. Whereas And

Stephanie [00:16:15]:

that's how I feel too.

Heather Manley [00:16:17]:

Yeah. If I feel a buzz with alcohol, I can have a glass of water, and it's right back down within 15 minutes. So maybe that's the control freak in me. A little bit, type a, but, you know, I just I think it's I think it's exciting. I think the more that we can have freedom to do business in Minnesota, the better everybody will be. So

Stephanie [00:16:37]:

Yeah. Because whatever that ends up being, if we stop being what they call the nanny state, You know, where the state is governing all of your choices, that is better for business.

Heather Manley [00:16:49]:

Yeah. We're a fun sponge state.

Stephanie [00:16:51]:

Yes. Yeah.

Heather Manley [00:16:54]:

Yeah.

Stephanie [00:16:55]:

Can I ask you kind of a weirdly unrelated but related question? One of the things that I'm obsessed with in both your personal and your professional life is your tablescapes. You have the most beautiful tablescapes. You've also designed a house That just speaks to my heart so much because it's designed for entertaining. Like Yeah.

Heather Manley [00:17:20]:

Yeah. You walk in, and it's a the 10 foot table in your face. I realized, like, probably how odd that is, but I absolutely love it.

Stephanie [00:17:28]:

It it works for me so much, and it's part of why I love to come to your house. And You just every space in your home feels warm and entertainment worthy. You know what I mean? Like, Even your bathroom feels like you could hang out in there with a cocktail if you wanted to.

Heather Manley [00:17:45]:

Because there's a speaker in there. Everyone's just gonna move with a speaker in their bathroom just for privacy.

Stephanie [00:17:51]:

And there's just, like, beautiful smells in there. And, I mean, I say this with a 100% sincerity. You are one of my favorite, like, entertainers. And when I get invited to be in your entertaining presence, I'm so excited. And your tables. And What do you think like, people are kinda hesitant to entertain at home, I think. They just don't feel like they know how to put a menu together or that it's so much work. What makes entertaining feel effortless to you? Because it sure looks effortless when you do it.

Heather Manley [00:18:23]:

Oh, I love you for saying that. And second, I'll add you to even other weird events if I know you're willing to come out into the middle of nowhere.

Stephanie [00:18:30]:

Jeez. I'm closer than I used to be.

Heather Manley [00:18:33]:

I know who you are. You know, like, I we did a charity event on I think it's my my creative background, we did a charity event, with Smack Shack for Great River Greening, and I had nothing on the table and, like, even Dawn, the sous chef, she was like, so do you want help with this? I'm like, no. No. No. I'm just gonna go outside. And I went outside with scissors, and I cut all my hydrangeas, and it's, like, probably one of my favorite tables keeping I've ever done, though I did warn everybody it could go up at any moment. So, like, have your drinks ready. But, like, I just I love finding the weirdest things and making them beautiful, and it is stressful.

Heather Manley [00:19:10]:

Like, I mean, I I plan. I like perfection. Perfection doesn't exist, So that's my own problem. What I I think my my thing is that I'm trying to find joy in just the experience. Right? The joy of having friends that wanna come here. The joy of, Even having a table for 12 that I can you know? Like like, there's there's and and my expectations are my own. People don't come in with them, and they they just wanna be here. And I I will say, I think I even told you.

Heather Manley [00:19:38]:

Remember the party, like, 4 years ago? Or It might even been pre COVID or in COVID. I'm, like, I can't host, like, every every party. Everyone needs to have parties. Yes. Yeah. The like, for me, the biggest joy is to go somewhere else and not have to clean and not have to think about it. And I'm horrible, because sometimes I even forget the hostess gift, because I'm so ready to let everything go. And then I am so embarrassed when I show up that I have nothing.

Heather Manley [00:20:05]:

But I love it when other people host, and I think what people need to get into their head is it's never a competition. Get that get your inspiration from from Instagram, but Comparison is the thief of happiness. Right? So do it to what makes you happy, but don't compare yourself to anybody else.

Stephanie [00:20:22]:

Right. And, like, your friends just wanna be in your presence. You know? Like, you can even make hot dogs and beans. No one cares.

Heather Manley [00:20:30]:

And they they would effing love that if you made hot dogs and beans. Right? And and, like, and do it in the cutest way and all. I mean, they just really wanna hang out.

Stephanie [00:20:39]:

Yeah. I think for me, one of the goals I had for this year was to entertain more. I've gotten a little complacent since COVID. You know, we came out of the sorta Just we came out of COVID, and it was like, every everything's on again. But I was trying to find a good balance Of Yeah. I enjoyed some of the COVID things. So I wanted to come back and be more intentional about how I was spending my time. But Yeah.

Stephanie [00:21:05]:

I'm not entertaining as much in my own home as I wanted to.

Heather Manley [00:21:09]:

I'm not Stephanie, I'm not either. I actually, like, Turned into this, unexpected introvert in, quote, in COVID, which I loved because I was so out of balance Of being so social that I now kinda covet that or or need a little bit of that that private time that I I didn't really, I didn't need before, which is really interesting.

Stephanie [00:21:34]:

Yeah. And I always I felt very similarly, and I thought, like, woah. Is this age? But for me, I think, You know, the more that life gets lived out loud through social and through our work and, you know, the the radio show and now the TV stuff, and All of that is so energy, producing, but also draining that I need, like, a lot more time by myself.

Heather Manley [00:22:00]:

Yeah. It's kinda comforting to hear that because, like, even this year and last year, I made my holiday party at the American Legion, which is Insane because, like, my house is meant to have a party, but it's like it's almost like I don't I I wanna outsource the bartender to the bar. You know, spill your drink. I don't give an f. Right? Like, everyone get wild, have fun, and it's, like, it's so so interesting to have that mindset. Like, at some point, I'll have to have party here maybe this summer where we can kind of leverage all the spaces, but it like, it's even weird to be outsourcing my parties when I

Stephanie [00:22:33]:

I thought about that. I thought about that with you, but I think what I came to was, you know, you're probably doing like, at holidays, we might be entertaining multiple days in a row.

Heather Manley [00:22:44]:

Yeah. I last year, I did 4 Thanksgivings in 1 week, and I cried at the third one.

Stephanie [00:22:52]:

Yeah.

Heather Manley [00:22:52]:

Like, with all my YPO guys, all dudes, and I just lost it. And they're like, what's going on? And I'm like, like, I don't know. But I'm like, I'm f*****g exhausted.

Stephanie [00:23:03]:

And overwhelmed. Yes.

Heather Manley [00:23:04]:

And I had another Thanksgiving to do in 2 days, and they're so kind. But they're like, So maybe we don't do this next year in Thanksgiving week. And I'm like, yeah. I I think post COVID, I just have different Boundaries of, like or stress levels I'm willing to take on.

Stephanie [00:23:21]:

Well, I'm glad that you're willing to take on the event at the Lexington with me because we're gonna have fun.

Heather Manley [00:23:27]:

I'm I'm not gonna cry, and I'm super excited.

Stephanie [00:23:30]:

No. You're not gonna cry. We're just gonna be able to revel in your flavors, Your profile of your botanicals that you bring to the party, and I think you'll be really just impressed by the people that come and how fun they are and how excited they are to learn about your product. So

Heather Manley [00:23:46]:

We do a lot of these events, but I haven't done, like, a great tasting dinner in a while, so I'm really excited just to hang out and do something really fun, have amazing food, and and, have my spirits associated with them, so I'm really excited.

Stephanie [00:24:04]:

Well, thank you for joining me today, Heather. I'm gonna get this podcast posted right away so that people can hear the story And join us at your great event that we're gonna be having at the Lexington's Crooked Water Spirits, Heather Manley. We'll see you soon. Couple weeks.

Heather Manley [00:24:17]:

Love it. Love you. Thank you. Heather. Alright. Bye.

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