APEX Express – 1.9.25 – Hindutva & The Far Right

KPFA - APEX Express

A weekly magazine-style radio show featuring the voices and stories of Asians and Pacific Islanders from all corners of our community. The show is produced by a collective of media makers, deejays, and activists.

Tonight on APEX Express we speak with members of We Are Savera about Hindutva and the Far Right. Safa Ahmed from Indian American Muslim Council and Roja Suganthy-Singh from Dalit Solidarity Forum USA join Host Miko Lee for an enlightening conversation.

More information about We Are Savera

Haf Way to Supremacy Report

Savera United Against Supremacy Petition

Hindutva & The Far Right Transcripts

Opening: [00:00:00] Apex Express Asian Pacific expression. Community and cultural coverage, music and calendar, new visions and voices, coming to you with an Asian Pacific Islander point of view. It’s time to get on board the Apex Express.

Miko Lee: [00:00:34] Welcome. Tonight on Apex Express, we’re very excited to be talking with folks from Savera, a multicultural, interfaith, anti-caste coalition of Indian Americans and partners standing together in the fight against the rise of the transnational far right. Can you please, my lovely guests, introduce yourselves with your name and your organization?

Safa, can we start with you, please?

Safa Ahmed: [00:00:58] Hi, everyone. My name is Safa Ahmed. I am the Associate Director of Media and Communications for the Indian American Muslim Council.

Miko Lee: [00:01:05] And Roja, can you please introduce yourself?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:01:08] My name is Roja Suganthy-Singh, and I represent Dalit Solidarity Forum in the USA. I’m the co-founder president, which our organization is also an integral part of Savera, one of the partners.

Miko Lee: [00:01:26] Thank you. I know there’s other partners with the Savera, which I’d love you to kind of just name what those other partners are.

Safa Ahmed: [00:01:35] Yeah, so there’s multiple organizations within the Savera Coalition have, of course, Indian American Muslim Council, which is the largest and oldest advocacy organization for Indian Muslims dedicated to combating Hindu supremacy in the United States and India. We also have several partners who are also very much involved in that line of work, including Hindus for Human Rights, which is a progressive Hindu organization that is aimed at combating Hindu supremacy using a Hindu voice and also speaking out. Speaking out for other civil rights and social justice causes that impact communities both in the U. S. and India. We have India Civil Watch International, we have Dalit Solidarity Forum, and we also have several other partners, across the spectrum of, identities and communities as well. But those are the main, that are in the core of Savera.

Miko Lee: [00:02:21] So this is a broad coalition and we have two of the members here. Since we have you two here today, I’d love to hear from each of you personally. Um, and this is a question that I ask all of my guests, it’s an adaptation of the great poet Chinaka Hodges. And my question is, who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you? Roja, can you start please?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:02:43] I, like I said, Dalit Solidarity Forum in the USA, I’m one of the co-founders, and I’m the president of the organization. And it’s one of the oldest, Dalit rights organizations in the United States, founded in 1999. basically to provide visibility to and engage in activism to condemn discriminations and violence faced by Dalits, formerly known as untouchables, in India. And due to the caste system, which is an ancient system of human classification still practiced in India and today globally as well, Dalits are rejected and socially excluded as outcasts by the rest of the Indian population. So they are everyday victims of structurally embedded discrimination in all social sectors. forced to live in extreme poverty, subject to constant dehumanization and unspeakable violence , my work with DSF has been to provide visibility to, to this issue. And I’ve been working with grassroots leadership in India for over 25 years now, and my academic work also and research is deeply embedded in the intersectional realities and experiences of Dalit women in India.

Miko Lee: [00:03:58] Thank you so much. And Safa, what about you? Who are your people and what legacy do you carry with you?

Safa Ahmed: [00:04:05] So I am a second generation Indian American Muslim, and I always talk about Indian Muslims as this community that’s not very well, understood beyond and even in India, actually not many people know that India has one of the largest Muslim populations in the world with 200 million people, which is about 14 percent of the overall population. It is the second largest religious group in India and the largest religious minority group. And like all religious groups in India, Muslims are so diverse in their ethnicities, languages, cultures, and interpretations of their faith. it’s been in India since, I think some historians say as early as the 7th century, Islam came to India via Arab traders, there are mosques in India that were built in South India where my family is from around 629 CE, which is over 800 years before Muslim emperors ruled India, and throughout India’s history, Muslims have made these vast and beautiful contributions to the culture, to political movements, to society. There were well known Indian freedom fighters who were at the forefront of the Indian independence movement. There’s beautiful architecture in India, like the Taj Mahal was built by a Muslim ruler. There’s so much that Indian Muslims have contributed to Indian arts, society, culture. and yet today, In modern India, we’re seeing that beautiful legacy, being erased mosque by mosque, shrine by shrine, person by person. and so the legacy I carry with me is that, I see what’s happening to our people in India, and, Actually, the Indian American Muslim Council, my organization, was born from this worry that our founders had when they saw a lot of mass violence erupting against Muslims in India, particularly in 2002, when India’s current prime minister, who was then the chief minister of a state called Gujarat, orchestrated a pogrom against around 2, 000 Muslim women, children, and men, very brutal, graphic violence. And that was kind of the first spark that our founders saw of this kind of rise of Hindu militants, Hindu supremacist violence, and they saw how This erasure could become something national in India on in fact spread to the diaspora as well. So that’s kind of the mission that we carry with were there to speak about Indian Muslims, not just the struggles that they’re facing, not just the pain that they go through, but also to remind people that we exist on, and we are more than just, you know, these sad stories or these, crying faces in the media. We have a culture on. We’re very, very proud to be Indian.

Miko Lee: [00:06:39] Thank you so much. Those are such rich answers that combined both who you are and how you’re connected to the work that you do. Can you talk about how the Savera coalition came to be?

Safa Ahmed: [00:06:51] The Savera coalition was founded, or at least the idea began in, around, 2023, but this notion that we had that we need a united, movement against the Hindu supremacist movement, which we’ll talk a little bit more about later in detail. What is it, etc. But we wanted like this united movement within the Indian American diaspora that would be willing to take on supremacist ideologies that we saw kind of like raising their heads in our community. and we also had this hypothesis that, you know, these, these Supremacist voices or these far right voices in our diaspora. They’re very loud and they often get a lot of representation, in the media, in politics, et cetera. but we do feel that there is a majority of us, we call it the new diasporic majority, which we feel is, Mostly united against supremacist ideologies, and that’s where the name for Savera was born Savera means new dawn in Hindi or Urdu, and we say we’re united against supremacy in the sense that our community is not just like, you know, talking to the Indian diaspora. and we’re not just talking to one segment of the Indian diaspora. We are comprised of Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Dalits, Christians, atheists across the board, like whatever identity you can think of. We are a multi faith organization, but we are also multi racial. so we are in conversation with, progressive, Jewish groups Black Americans, Asian Americans. We’re trying to really broaden our coalition. We thought Savera would be the perfect platform to bring all these groups together and say, hey, there is this supremacist movement that, is, popping up within the Indian American diaspora, but because it is so closely allied with other supremacist movements that other groups might be more familiar with, like Zionism, like, Like Chinese American right wing groups or white supremacy, we felt that, we can Add in our voice here and we can show people like this is how you take on Hindu supremacy. This is how you identify it. and our work is really about making that knowledge more and more mainstream.

Miko Lee: [00:08:49] Let me ask one more question just as a follow up to that, Safa. We’re seeing this right wingedness, this, you know, supremacy worldwide, right? It’s happening everywhere, in every country. And I’m wondering how, how so many, American white, like white supremacists got connected with Hindu supremacy. It feels like they’re like, they think white people are the best. How did they get connected with Hindu supremacy? Like Steve Bannon is really connected in. He’s like runs one of the packs, right? Or he’s the head of one of the packs. So how did that connection between white supremacy and Hindu supremacy? Where did that start? Where’d that come from?

Safa Ahmed: [00:09:28] Yes, it’s actually a very old history. If you look at the founding ideologues of Hindu supremacy, they were individuals who were, observing fascist movements, during the World War II era and so they’re looking at these movements and they’re not thinking like, oh, okay. How do we protect ourselves in India? They’re thinking how do we emulate that? How do we take what Hitler did in Nazi Germany? And these are explicitly Parallels laid out by some of the founding ideologues of Hindutva. or Hindu supremacist ideology. so M. S. Golwalkar for anyone who is interested in looking deeper into this. He’s spoken about his admiration for Nazi Germany a couple of times in his writings. These individuals were talking about how, okay, fascism served as this quote unquote magic wand for Germany. we should replicate whatever they’ve done to the Semitic races in Germany to the Minorities in India and they should not be asking us for anything. so there’s this quote actually that really well illustrates this like, you know this fascination with fascist ideology from these individuals In 1939 M. S. Golwalkar who I just mentioned Uh, he wrote to keep up the purity of the nation and its culture Germany shocked the world by purging the country of semitic races the jews national pride At its highest has been manifested here and so you can see how, you know, there’s this admiration. It’s really embedded in this idea of like, how do we gain this proximity to these fascist movements, right? How do we replicate them, in our own nation? But additionally, when you see these ideologies converging in modern times, you also see these upper caste Indian American Hindu supremacists really seeking this proximity to whiteness. And this manifests in a couple of ways. So the first being that, Indian American Hindu supremacists often position themselves as this model minority. they’re saying we’re not like other minorities, like Muslims, like Sikhs, who are quote unquote terrorists, who are prone to violence, et cetera. We are more like white people. We are the model minority. and by using wedge politics, they kind of like shift themselves and position themselves to be a bit closer to these white supremacists. Additionally, they also, have a common enemy. So you see in a lot of like modern fascist movements, Zionism, white supremacy, there’s a lot of supremacist movements globally actually that do scapegoat Muslims, as one of their main targets, especially where it comes to like, you know, interpersonal violence and hate crimes. There’s a lot of like, you know, anti Muslim rhetoric and, anti Muslim some hate speech on the rise, like globally as well. and we see India’s Hindu far right, really contributing to that. And there are American, far right, like anti Muslim ideologues, like Robert Spencer, who really got his start after 9/11, you know, saying all this like anti Muslim stuff and getting really famous off of it. When his audience started to like, kind of die down in the U S he was able to turn to Hindu nationalists. audiences in India and really bolstered his presence there. And you see, Hindu supremacists now being welcomed, into, national conferences on, conservative ideology, Ram Madhav, who is the BJP leader, BJP meaning, a member of the ruling party in India currently. was actually invited to, the National Conference on Conservatism

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:12:38] I can add to that if that helps. Yeah. White supremacy and Hindu supremacy. And so if we look at how the KKK operated, or still operates, and in the same way, right, we do see The RSS, which is the Rashtriya Swayamsevak Sangh, which is the sort of, you know, the cesspool of the Hindutva ideology that people get trained in, schooled in, whether at training camps, just like the KKK, to train people to learn the fundamental ideology and the fundamental practices of the holy mission, right? As they call it in the KKK, the holy mission of the white Christian revival and the goal of becoming leaders, right? In this sort of new crusade for race and homeland and, and so on. So the same pattern is what Hindutva and Hindu supremacy actually operates on. So it holds regular training programs to educate and train people in the fundamentals of what Hindutva actually stands for and how in India should be a Hindu country. And now that we have. You know, so many Indians in the United States. So that needs to be, kind of like replanted, into the United States. And so that is a, that is a very strong similarity, that we see there. And also the other ways in which we see similarities between Hindu supremacy and white supremacy, is that there is widespread demonization of communities.

So if white supremacy chooses to demonize LGBTQ plus people, immigrants, you know, non Christians, Muslims, Sikhs, and so on. So this has given white nationalists like hope that their views will continue, right, to sort of align and be the forefront of American politics. So the same way this parallel sort of operates. In the same manner, Hindu supremacy in many sectors in the United States today, whether it is the tech field or in the field of medicine or education, politics, and so on, their presence is so insidious, so cunning in the way that they operate, that is, you know, it makes an average American citizen who’s not aware of all of this, right, who’s not educated in all of this to be blindsided, to say, Oh, isn’t this amazing, look at diversity happening in America. And so using that DEI sort of lens, to overshadow what is actually going on underneath and using Indian cultural identity as something. synonymous with, with Hindu identity. So these are all very, insidious ways in which, Hindu supremacy operates, in the United States, sort of really, hijacking people, the white, mind to believe that, oh, I’m a good progressive white person if I’m going to participate in, Hindu activities, which could very well be, Hindutva or Hindu supremacist activity, being sort of really camouflaged as cultural activity. So, we see this sort of, you know, overlapping of hierarchy, claiming superiority over certain communities, people, how caste operates in India, the same way race operates here too. Using, right, using religion, using all kinds of religious dominant narratives to establish a certain superiority over certain groups of people. And, and we saw this even, you know, with Loving versus Virginia case that happened, in the late 50s, early 60s, right? So the white, judges and law enforcement officials using the argument that God had a purpose in creating these different racial groups. So the same way caste operates also. So there’s a lot of overlapping, a lot of parallels here.

[00:16:22] Miko Lee: [00:16:22] Thank you for breaking that down. there’s so many things that you brought up the way, these groups work together, these supremacist groups, and it’s really the, ideas about race don’t seem as prevalent as class. and cast, right? It’s really about who is making all the bank, who is up there, who’s controlling and who’s controlling the narrative. And the narrative is often flipped, like absolutely inaccurate and, and really also highlighting like a scapegoat. Picking certain people to really look down upon. So thank you for lifting all that up.

I wonder if you all can give a little breakdown for me about the differentiation between Hindu nationalism, Hindutva, and Hindu supremacy.

Safa Ahmed: [00:17:08] So Hindutva is a Hindi word, for our purposes we translate it as Hindu supremacy because we at Savera we feel that that is the closest translation, but you might have also seen this commonly referred to in the news as Hindu nationalism. What is this ideology? It is a supremacist ideology, specifically, separate from the religion of Hinduism, which is diverse in its interpretations, and its manifestations in India itself. so Hindutva is separate from that. and this ideology desires the transformation of India from what it is right now, which is a secular democracy, as enshrined in the Indian constitution, into a majoritarian Hindu ethnostate. In which all minorities in India are looked down upon, but, in particular, Muslims and non Hindu minorities are given second class status or threatened with expulsion or in some cases, there have been Actually, multiple cases there have been calls for mass violence or ethnic cleansing or even genocide against these minorities, and this is the dominant ideology of India’s ruling party, which is a right wing party called the Bharatiya Janata Party or the BJP, and it’s Prime Minister Narendra Modi who heads that party, and these guys have been in power since 2014. So in the last decade, Modi has turned Hindu supremacy into state policy. So as I mentioned, this began as this fringe group where you had these ideologues, trying to replicate Nazi Germany’s playbook, on a very, you know, relatively small, scale in India.

Now that ideology has become normalized, it has been kind of integrated into pretty much every aspect of Indian, civic life, social life, politics, it’s infiltrated the judiciary, the media, and it’s really put minorities in this very difficult, precarious position where you have a lot of global human rights groups and international bodies you know, putting out warnings saying, Hey, If this isn’t addressed, then India could very well be on the way to, ethnically cleansing, Muslims, Christians, going after other minorities next. and so I’ve given a little bit of the background of where Hindutva comes from. but I also want to mention that, This fascist supremacist ideology doesn’t just impact Indian minorities, nor does it impact only, non Hindus because as Roja mentioned, there are Dalits who suffer under the casteist, and bigoted, supremacist hierarchy that Hindutva seeks to establish with Brahmins at the very top and Dalits at the bottom. So it is not a movement for all Hindus, no matter how much they claim it is. Um, And the impact of this is also not just hurting Indian minorities who are in India. It’s been exported well beyond India, for decades now. and it’s been present in the diaspora since the 70s. and it targets Muslims across the globe and often vies for the attention, as I mentioned, of other right wing audiences. A prime example is how right wing Indians on social media have played the significant role in pushing anti Palestinian disinformation after October 7th. so you have this movement that is slowly expanding and it’s been expanding for a while outside of India and our, Our challenge right now is to identify it for what it is because for a very long time, because, you know, this is a minority group within a minority group, you have a certain subset of Indian Americans who are Hindu who are pushing for the supremacist ideology, to be recognized as representative of all Indian Americans, which is simply not the case and our challenge has been how do we Walk back those harms that have already been perpetrated. How do we show them that our new diasporic majority should be the ones having the louder voice? And I’ll pass it to Roja to speak a bit more about what Hindutva’s manifestations have been like in the United States.

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:21:03] Yeah, thank you. Safa. I mean, just focusing on hatred against, you know, Muslims, Sikhs, Dalits, Christians, that itself, right, lends itself to so much of analysis, but it’s no brainer if we kind of align it with what people like even Andrew Anglin, right, um, the Daily Stormer founded in 2013 we can safely say, a neo Nazi of the millennial generation, right, among the most prominent online gathering places, right, for white nationalists and anti Semites and so on. So in the same way, you do see how Hindutva takes that, runs with that whole, you know, demonization of every other faith group, every other, community that doesn’t align with Brahmanism and so on. So one of the main reasons, one of the main focus of Hindutva slash Hindu supremacy is to Let the American people believe that if they are not going to agree to what they are representing or what they’re putting out on the table, then it is going to be called Hinduphobia. Right. So, that is one of the one of the main ways in which they’re trying to really cover up this whole . agenda that they have to transplant like whatever Safa was saying is happening in India to transplant all of that to the United States because we are seeing more and more, right, more and more Muslims migrating to the United States from India, more and more Dalits more and more Sikhs coming or from other parts of the world too. So in the past three decades, the Hindutva folks have seen this happening, so therefore, there is this sense of urgency that they have to, you know, somehow, really, hijack the mindset of the American people to make them believe that they align with the United States agenda. in sort of calling out and speaking out against communities that don’t really align with what Christianity is about or what white supremacy is about. So, Hindu supremacy, Hindutva attacks target groups of people based on, as I’ve already said, based on caste, religion, attacking Muslims, Dalits, Christians, and so on. So, in 2023 alone, in Manipur in India, we saw over 200 people were killed and, you know, Christian, um, Homes and churches were, you know, were demolished. And this happened even last week in a, in a village in South India also, but somehow sort of, you know, equalizing that to, to say that we are being very faithful Hindus, right, by protecting, protecting what, they’ve been taught in terms of even, the Ram Mandir, right, temple example most recently, to take a hateful symbol of that to the U. S. street. So, so an opposition is described as being Hindu phobic, right? So, so this kind of agenda that Hindu supremacy sort of, you know, really wants to popularize in the United States, um, And people don’t realize that this is a militant form. And I think that is what people really need to understand in the United States, that this is a militant ideology. and this is, you know, it’s a breeding ground and very soon this number is going to get out of hand. Hindutva is already, you know, Hindutva people are already taking over political scenario in the United States. And if we do not act now and name these organizations, as hate organizations and what, you know, and these are breeding grounds for such militant sort of ideologies. And if we don’t put a stop to this, America is going to have a very big problem in its hand. It’s a layer that the United States doesn’t need, but it is unfolding as we speak right now.

Miko Lee: [00:24:58] This is APEX Express. You are listening to 94.1 KPFA and 89.3 KPFB in Berkeley, 88.1 KFCF in Fresno, 97.5 K248BR in Santa Cruz, 94.3 K232FZ in Monterey, and online worldwide at kpfa.org.

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Welcome back. This is the Powerleegirls on apex express, and that was Kushimoto Bushi by Minyo Crusaders

Miko Lee: [00:27:27] You mentioned this a little bit. Can you speak more on Hinduphobia and how that terminology has been co-opted by the Hindu supremacist? Because it actually sounds like if you, if you just hear the word Hindu phobia or Hindu phobic, it’s like, oh, yeah, that’s like Islamophobia. That must be bad. That’s so can you speak a little bit about the origin of that word and how that has been and what that symbolizes for folks that might not know?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:27:52] Yeah so creating this sort of, manipulative, narrative in the United States to say that if you don’t support our sort of cultural presence as a DEI or as diverse in the United States. then you are sort of lending yourself to be a person who hates Hinduism, right? throwing everybody under that blanket of Hinduism is something that we need to separate and say, no, right? There are people that are Hindus who are not Hindu supremacists, who are not, bought into that militant ideology of supremacy over other communities and so if you look at the case of the California anti caste bill case that is a very clear example of how Governor Newsom and and other supportive politicians in his office were bought out by this whole idea of convincing him that if he’s going to sign on to this bill, then is then he’s going, you know, against Hindu groups, because then they are going to be targeted because of this bill. So therefore, using that term Hinduphobia to say that then you’re a, you’re a hater of Hindus, right? kind of like broad brushing that term of Hindus and Hinduism, is what using that term Hinduphobia, seeks to do in the United States.

Safa Ahmed: [00:29:14] I can add on to that just a little bit. I think it’s also important to, mention that Savera as a group are all our collective organizations. Actually, we do care about hate crimes against any individual. We do care about the presence of anti Indian sentiment, anti Hindu sentiment. And that certainly does exist, especially in a country like the United States, where again, this is a minority community. And as such, a minority community almost inevitably will face some sort of racism. however, if you look at the word hinduphobia and the context in which it’s used, it’s almost exclusively used in a cynical way by people who are already established within the Hindu far right movement in the United States. and so you’ll see hinduphobia. Roja mentioned, this term is very intentionally used to be a callback to, other phobias that exist that harm marginalized communities, in this, systemic, way, the fact of the matter being though, that most academics and scholars and even progressive Hindu groups agree that this systemic form of anti Hindu discrimination does not exist in the same way that, you know, anti Semitism or anti Muslim bigotry harms, individuals in their everyday lives. And so you’ll see Hindu phobia often used in the same way that Zionists weaponize the term anti Semitism, which is to say that they conflate, as Roja mentioned, religion with this supremacist ideology, and also conflates religion with criticism of a foreign government. So in this case, being the government of India and its ideology. And so you’ll see Hindu phobia as a term being hurled at any activists, academics, Muslim politicians, other politicians from Indian diaspora minority groups who happen to call out Hindu supremacy or its talking points in these And you’ll see them being hit with this like word Hindu phobia that is often very scary for people who don’t understand like, you know, what its connotations are, and most people don’t want to be racist or phobic of anyone. And so you see the cynical weaponization of this term as a way to really control opposition and to shut down criticism. And we see it being used to even like overturn, official, resolutions that have been passed in like city councils, Chicago city council recently had an incident where a resolution criticizing a discriminatory law that would disenfranchise Muslims in India being overturned due to Hindu supremacists in the United States, labeling that as Hindu phobic. there is this parallel that you see Hindu supremacists using the Zionist Playbook very intentionally, this conflation of religion, and supremacist ideology to make sure their criticisms of that ideology don’t gain the traction that they should.

Miko Lee: [00:32:01] Thank you for breaking that down and the comparison with people using the terminology anti Semitic constantly. We’re hearing that so much. Anybody that speaks support for Palestinian people or what’s going on in Gaza are immediately just called anti Semitic without looking at the whole picture. So you’re saying that that term, Hindu phobia is being used in the same way to anybody that’s talking about Hindu supremacy. Is that right?

Safa Ahmed: [00:32:25] Yes, absolutely.

Miko Lee: [00:32:26] Thanks for breaking that down. There’s many different reasons for this rise in supremacy around the world. And I am just wondering if one of those contributing factors is it feels like there’s a lot of high caste Brahmins in leadership positions at Internet companies where they have such power, To share information around the world. And so I’m just wondering if you are feeling that that is, is that connected?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:32:54] Yes, absolutely. There is no doubt about it, because some of the first or early immigrants from India into the United States or into any other part of the world in terms of, you know, quote, unquote, developed countries, were from the Brahmin community. So yes, there is that very clear strong connection to the long term presence of all of these, high ranked, officials and like you’re saying, like CEOs and corporations and so on. So there is that legacy that is there. So, so sort of really trying to hoard those positions of power, not just positions, but. the knowledge production in those spaces, right? So not allowing any other, presence or any other, alternate worldviews into those spaces has been one of the major agendas of people who’ve been occupying that space, generationally.

Miko Lee: [00:33:57] Thank you. So, Savera has authored three distinctive, incredibly important reports about Hindu supremacy, the first one being cut from the same cloth, the VHPA’s ties to its Indian counterpart, and the global VHP’s trail of violence, and then your latest report is Halfway to Supremacy, um, how the Hindu American Foundation rebrands bigotry as minority rights. And we spoke a little bit about this earlier, about the rebranding, but can you talk with us more about your recent report and why this is important for people to understand?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:34:34] Yes. Thank you for that. Thank you for the space too. Savera, it represents the breadth of the Indian American community, in seeking to bring together a majority, you know, opposed to supremacist politics. But here in this case, in this report, we are focusing on Hindu American Foundation referred to as HAAF. Our third report in 2024, makes three key arguments, where Savera demonstrates that, Hindu American Foundation emerged from definitely within a second generation of Hindutva activists. And we see a lot of support for Trump in that sector, also in that population. Seeking to, you know, build this very, tasteful, palatable, you know, facade or, or an appearance for Hindu supremacy. So to do so, what, Hindu American Foundation, did was definitely continue to receive, funding from different parts of the world, but especially, a lot of going back and forth of financial exchange, between folks in India and here and working closely with a lot of these kinds of, distasteful groups, as I want to mention, in this movement here. But in public, you know, kind of lied and claimed to be, you know, oh, no, no, no, we have no connection whatsoever to them. But to show that, that we have evidence, right, for that. I think that’s one of our key findings, that yes, there is movement of money back and forth, between, these, organizations, between people, between, politically motivated groups, and we have evidence for that in this report. And then also showing that, Hindu American Foundation has continued to advocate for positions that deeply harm Our society. I mean, there are different reasons why we left our home country and we are here and to come to a country where we wanted to believe in liberty and equality and safety and security of people, then to think that we are here. Kind of going back to that same place is very disheartening. They’re very distressing. So this is really true across three key fault lines, within the Indian American community, which you will see in very explicit explicit spaces. One of the most explicit spaces where you’ll see this is in the matrimonial websites that people put out, right? from the Indian American community also where caste is of high importance, religion, right, linguistic identity and To add to all of that, the support for the Modi, you know, regime that have has continued that Hindu American Foundation has continued to advocate for, and that is one of the, you know, again, key findings that we have come out with to show how this is actually, Operating in the United States. So all these kinds of curtailing of religious, freedom and support for the Modi regime. And then thirdly, we also demonstrate that Hindu American Foundation, while claiming to be a civil rights organization, right, quote, unquote, definitely has moved, further and further right. And, looking at their increasing alignment with, you know, Trump’s administration. Now we are seeing that very clearly unfolding again as we speak. who is actually Trump choosing to be in these very important political positions. like Vivek Ramaswamy, right, Ash Patel, Tulsi Gabbard and so on. And so, defending these figures, right, against criticism, is another important agenda for Hindu American Foundation, protecting these, you know, or kind of glorifying the accomplishments of these individuals.

So notably, this agenda plays into far right culture war narratives by framing anti caste politics, policies as, misguided and kind of like, these are excessive DEI initiatives and so on. So in this discussion of immigration issues also, definitely, right, who are the good, like Safa mentioned before, right, who are the model minority immigrants, who are the model minority, Indians versus the others. So omitting any kind of mention of issues facing undocumented immigrants, despite the fact that Indian Americans make up the third largest undocumented group in the country. So in recent months, you know, we’ve also seen how Hindu American Foundation has joined the far right’s attack on ethnic studies. and social justice oriented curricular material, right, in schools and colleges and so on. So, and calling themselves, like, Coalition for Empowered Education, right? So, these are all very specific ways in which, Savera has, put their finger on to, to name it as it is, as we see it, and so we believe that, Hindu American Foundation’s rise must be seen within the context of the broader emergence of a multiracial far right, one that was in fact, we know that was, you know, helped, to come into existence by the Democratic Party itself at one point. and then we’re seeing how Hindu American Foundation is one of a few right wing organizations among minority communities that found patronage with institutions that really hope to welcome, an ethnic and religious minority, but then sort of, you know, making up a costly misreading because Hindu supremacists, emboldened by the rise of Modi and Trump, have turned the very institutions that once, you know, sort of really, nurtured them. So Savera doesn’t want to just analyze, identify, But building a broad coalition to defeat, right, defeat the presence of Hindutva, Hindu supremacy in the United States, because it really goes against our country’s United States belief in, you know, liberty, for all, right? Equality for all. What Martin Luther King, Jr. fought for and what the civil rights movement actually stood for. So these decades of battle that has been, fought, to sort of reinstate and, and instate the fact that we need to respect. Everybody’s human personhood and dignity. This is being totally right demolished by the Hindu supremacist. So we want to preserve that. And so,we know that we are nearly two third majority of the Indian American community, and we can make a difference if we work together. to really expose these things that are happening. At the same time, we also know that our work is connected to various other struggles also and how this multiracial solidarity seeks an alliance with the MAGA far right. And we are building, we are also building a multiracial coalition, right, to fight the same. identity that the other group is trying to build here. So this is a battle. This is a battle to preserve the soul of what America stands for. And our values have helped us unite against white supremacy. And we have to show the same kind of commitment to stand against Hindu supremacy. Those are some of the key commitments and findings of Savera.

Miko Lee: [00:41:35] Thank you so much. That was quite exhaustive. I’m wondering if you could speak more on, I heard you say two thirds of Indian Americans do not support Hindu supremacy. Could you speak a little bit more on that?

Safa Ahmed: [00:41:48] Savera is predicated on the idea that if you look at the Indian American diaspora, in the United States. The majority is not Hindu. there’s actually closer to 50 ish percent, is comprised of all the other, Indian minority groups. I think it’s something around 53 percent. you have Muslims, Christians, Sikhs, other religious affiliations. And then from within the Hindu American community, uh, you have to then look and see who are your Brahmins, uh, and from them, who are your Hindu supremacists, right? not saying that, like, Hindu supremacists are exclusively Brahmin, because, this ideology, it can be pervasive, regardless of caste affiliation. However, Broadly speaking, it will mostly be your, like, upper, caste, Brahmin Hindus. and if you isolate that figure, It is going to be inevitably smaller than the majority. So you have your Hindu Americans who are on the fence, who aren’t really, you know, convinced by Hindu supremacist ideology, not that they’re necessarily going out and like, disagreeing with it in their spaces, but that, you know, they’re not really that pro Modi or that, you know, interested in this vision for India that this government is painting. And then you have Hindus who are vocally anti Hindu supremacy. You have Hindus who are vocally anti-caste, like our partners at Hindus for Human Rights. You have caste oppressed minorities themselves, raising their voices, like our friends at Dalit Solidarity Forum, and Ambedkar King Study, Study Circle. So there’s a lot of groups who are, within, the Indian American diaspora, For who are either not affiliated with Hindu supremacy explicitly, or they are vocally against it. So we haven’t done like a formal survey or anything asking people, like, do you support Hindu supremacy or not? But from living in our community and observing their attitudes and their ideologies and seeing where we’ve found safe spaces, we’re seeing that there is a great deal of people and what we would call the new diasporic majority, the majority that might not always have the loudest voice, because we’re not yet safe. Speaking all at the same time in a unified way that we’re working on that, but we’re seeing that, okay, in the end, when you look at all the Indian American, minorities within the diaspora, so the minority within the minority, you add them all up and then you put them against this community. Another vocal minority that claims to be speaking for all Indian Americans. This voice that is supremacist in nature, this voice that is like very loud right now, but only speaks for a few, it’s very clear to see that they are in fact the true minority. And Roja, if you have numbers for that, please feel free to share.

Miko Lee: [00:44:28] Let me just say really quick to try and clarify.

So the goal of Savera is to be able to build this broad coalition and really speak voice to equality of all peoples as a combat to this minority, small portion of very, very vocal Hindu supremacists that want just a portion of folks to be able to understand that they’re the ones that should get it all.

And Savera is trying to say. Look, we are the people, and for the people, we believe people have all rights. Is that, am I—

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:44:59] You are absolutely right. You are absolutely right, because what they are trying to do Hindu supremacists, what they’re trying to do is show themselves bigger than who they actually are. This is like the Wizard of Oz thingy, right? So, so, behind the curtain, like, who do we actually see, right? so even though their intentions, I mean, we know that their intentions are so vile, you know, vicious and, and so on, but they like to show themselves as they’re bigger than they actually are. So Indian Americans are the largest Asian group in the U. S., more than 4. 9 million people, but 1. 35 percent of the US population. Now I would say that Hindu supremacists draw their political power from the fact that they have one third of this community on their side. So like you said, in other words, it’s a small number. Of densely organized, but largely, you know, dominant caste communities, right? Because they are the ones who started coming into this country since 1965 or even a little before that. But even though they are a demographic minority, we know, we know the power of a well organized and well funded, that’s the thing, right? Well funded minority can really, hoard a lot of power, and then really release that power, right, into populations that don’t deserve that kind of, you know, presence or that kind of manipulation of who these people actually are. So, to delve into this, I think we really need to look into, you know, patterns of immigration and how over the years. this has been, you know, in the making.

Miko Lee: [00:46:44] And Roja, you already named, there’s key people that are coming into 45’s new administration, Kash Patel, Vivek Ramaswamy, and Tulsi Gabbard and probably many others that are already aligned with Hindu supremacy. How do folks that are listening to this take action, given that we know that this is coming? We know this new administration is coming. We know it’s being embedded with Hindu supremacists. What are things that our audience members can do?

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:47:13] I think American audience needs to really understand that this is a very strategic interjection of themselves into the political scenario of the United States. Like I said, that has been in the making decades ago. So right now we are seeing the performance of what has been In the form of script writing and and and planning for this.

So they’re they’re right now. They’re right. The performance is actually happening right now. So they have thrown in their cards right with a far right because they’re increasingly being exposed in the liberal circles because it’s the clearest route to power for people like Vivek Ramasamy and Tulsi Gabbard and Kash Patel and so on. So the Hindu supremacist destructive agenda will definitely be advanced, right, when they are aligning themselves with the MAGA movement’s authoritarianism, authoritarian plan, 2025, right? So it is just kind of like really blinking right in front of us. And I think it takes a lot of, not a lot, but it takes, it just takes intentional. people who want to claim their intelligence to understand this, right? So there can be very willful ignorance of this also, but people, I want to believe that America is made up of intelligent people, right? Who can see this glaring sign in front of them. And this will be bad for all of us, especially Muslims, Sikhs, Dalits, but also Hindus too, who don’t align themselves with Hindu supremacist groups who are under attack. So we also need to know that, you know, the directionality flows the other way. And the MAGA 2.0 benefits from a specific type of brown figure. You know, loyalty to Trump, right, which is basically strategic opportunism that is unfolding in front of us, and connections to right wing movements within our community.So we need to be really prepared for this. Look at in the UK, right, with Rishi Sunak and Braverman and Preeti Patel and so on. Right wingers among the community are not an aberration, but at the same time, we need to know that They don’t represent who Indian Americans are, right? And they’re not, the brown faces that most of us are, right? So we’re not all opportunists, we’re not all about, you know, claiming caste supremacy and aligning ourselves with white supremacists. So finally, we also need to look at the other side, also at how Democrats also have often nurtured Hindu supremacists too, right? I think Tulsi Gabbard is a great example of that, who first took on the pipeline through the Democratic Party. party via Hindu supremacy and then made their way coalition. So the key members of the Congress have all benefited, right, they’ve all benefited the most from the Hindu supremacist money. And that is, that is what is speaking right now, right? What you see there, walking beside Trump and, uh, Elon Musk, it’s money. Right. And unfortunately, these are, you know, brown faces there, who are advancing the Hindu supremacist agenda. So including, you know, Raja Krishnamoorthi, Sri Taneda, and so on. And recently, Suhasa Brahmanyam of Virginia was elected with substantial Hindu supremacist funding. So the American public must know, they must know that, you know, 50 percent of Indian Americans are not Hindu. And we know many Hindus who oppose Hindu supremacy. And this is the mission of Savera to build a coalition that will let the elected individuals know that. You know, that to strike a deal with the Sangh, which is, you know, another word that we use for Hindu supremacist groups, is to go against the majority of Indian American community. And that message needs to get across.

Safa Ahmed: [00:51:10] I’ll also add on to what Roja said so beautifully. I think one thing you alluded to really well, Roja, is that there’s such a strong need for education, from all people, just like regardless of their background, their job, what sector of society that they might exist in, whether it’s politicians or educators or activists, community leaders, or even everyday individuals who are looking at this new incoming administration, maybe. People who voted in this election, looking to create change in some way and then seeing all these individuals who they might assume would have voted Democrat or independent, seeing them, you know, throw their weight behind the Republican Party and being like, what is going on? Like, why are there so many brown people being nominated for Trump’s cabinet? Why are there so many, specifically Indian Americans coming out of the woodworks here to say that they’re going to be supporting or working with the Trump administration, and so the answer is really do lie in a lot of the work that our organizations are doing. and so definitely we recommend that they check out Savera’s resources. You can go to We are Savera.org or, find us on Instagram. We have a lot of really great breakdowns in like a digestible format about what is Hindu supremacy. What is the history there? We do a lot of commentary on current events and manifestations of Hindu supremacy in politics and in the spaces related to education and activism. so you can find us at we are savera on Instagram and Twitter. That’s just the starting point, though, right? So we have a lot of resources from all of our individual organizations as well. So Indian American Muslim Council has a lot of resources on what is the situation that impacts Indian Muslims, not just in India, but also Indian American Muslims.

We very recently put out a report, called the detrimental effects of Hindu nationalism on Indian American Muslims. and that report really breaks down, like, what is the, uh, percentage of Indian American Muslims like within our community who we have surveyed who say that Hindu supremacy affects them on a day to day basis.How many people have lost friends to this ideology? How many people are impacted at work? How many people are seeing harassment online directed their way on platforms that should be as benign as LinkedIn, right? Or WhatsApp? so checking out those resources, I know Hindus for Human Rights, for those who are interested. So if you’re interested in hearing a progressive Hindu voice that speaks on issues that are often construed as like too sensitive to speak about from this Hindu Supremacist lens you can out their resource well. groups like the South Asia Scholar Activist Collective, which is a really brilliant group of scholars of South Asia who came together and created this wonderful resource called the Hindutva Harassment Field Manual and this field manual does a lot to not just break down what is Hindu supremacy. How do you recognize it when you encounter it in the wild? But what do you do if you’re the victim of Hindu supremacist harassment? So this could be for, People who are in education who are in the university system and they see this term Hindu phobia hurled at them for some reason or another. What do you do? Who can support you? things like that. there’s a lot of different groups who are collectively working together to put out these resources and we highly recommend you check those out to get informed first and foremost.

The second thing I would like to recommend is that individuals go and spread the word once they’re informed. So there is a lot of chatter that we’re hearing. so we’re in contact with a lot of students on campuses. We’re seeing right how students have been organizing for Palestine and they’re seeing Zionism locking hands with white supremacy, but they’re also becoming very aware of how Hindu supremacy is really bolstering those two movements, really throwing in their lot behind them. and they’re seeing more and more that Hindu supremacists are becoming bold. they’re not very shy anymore about their blatant alliances with the far right. I think Roja mentioned that, Hindu American Foundation specifically said, we have a, you know, Hindu project 2025 when they’re talking about their plan for the upcoming year, that is very, very blatantly, you know, a right wing buzzword. And so there’s a lot of people who are looking at that and saying, okay, there’s got to be something that we can do about this. And I think it starts with talking about it, go online, go to Savera’s Twitter account, retweet us, repost, even if you don’t feel that you have, like, you know, the ability to talk about it on your own, as you’re being educated, you can amplify our voices, and you can really show support to us in that way. And the last thing I’ll say is that if you’re part of an organization, some sort of, like, activist group or, like, collective, Then you can go to Savera’s website and also see that we have a declaration that we have against Hindu supremacy. This is a declaration that has been signed by over a hundred organizations so far. and these include multiple different faith groups. We have groups that represent different racial communities, different ethnic communities. And so we have like Jewish, American groups, black American groups, Hindu American groups, Muslim American groups from all over the country that have signed onto this declaration against Hindu supremacy in the United States. So if you’re interested, your organization can head over to Savera’s website and sign onto it as well, because we are looking to make this a global, truly multiracial, truly multi ethnic, multi faith movement, under the Savera umbrella, that it stands united against supremacy, and you can be part of that.

Miko Lee: [00:56:25] Thank you so much for sharing all these important resources and spending your time with us educating us about the rise in Hindu supremacy. It’s deeply important for all of us to understand and know more about, and I’ll share the Savera Coalition website and the links to the reports in our show notes, kpfa.org backslash programs, backslash Apex Express. I want to thank you so much. Safa Ahmed and Roja Singh for spending so much time with me talking about this really important issue. We encourage our audience to check out the website, educate yourselves, find out more, so that you can truly stand with all people to fight for equality and for rights for all of us. Thank you so much for joining us here today on Apex Express.

Safa Ahmed: [00:57:12] Thank you.

Roja Suganthy-Singh: [00:57:12] Thank you so much, Miko.

Miko Lee: [00:57:14] Please check out our website, kpfa.org. To find out more about our show tonight. We think all of you listeners out there. Keep resisting, keep organizing, keep creating and sharing your visions with the world because your voices are important. Apex Express is created by Miko Lee, Jalena Keane-Lee, Preti Mangala-Shekar, Swati Rayasam, Aisa Villarosa, Estella Owoimaha-Church, Gabriel Tanglao, Cheryl Truong and Ayame Keane-Lee.

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