10 | The Journey Is The Best Part with Mark Turner

Through The Creative Door

Get set for a shot of inspiration as multi-instrumentalist and vibe creator Mark Turner links up with Alexis on this juicy episode. They dive headfirst into a lively chat, with Mark sharing personal insights and anecdotes that offer a sneak peek into the dynamic world of his creative process. From his early days in session work to his original projects, Mark dishes on the importance of trying everything you can and being okay with the outcome, because there is bound to be another project on the horizon.

Whether you're a musician, artist, or just someone who loves creating good vibes in your own way, this episode is bound to ignite your creative spark and reassure you that you're not alone on the wild journey of creativity.

If you’d like to see more of, you can follow Mark on instagram @markturnermusic

This episode was recorded on 23 November 2023 on the lands of the Wajuk Peoples. We hope that this episode inspires you as a creative person and as a human being.

Thanks for listening, catch you on the next episode.

Psst! We are always on the lookout for creative people to share their story and inspire others. Have you got someone in mind who would love to have a chat? Get in contact with us via Instagram @throughthecreativedoor

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CREDITS

Created and Hosted by Alexis Naylor

Music by Alexis Naylor & Ruby Miguel

Edited and Produced by Ruby Miguel

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00:08 - Alexis (Host)

Hi, my name is Alexis Naylor and I am your host here at Through the Creative Door. On behalf of myself and my guests, I would like to acknowledge the traditional owners and custodians on which this podcast is recorded and produced. We pay our respects to all First Nations people and acknowledge Elders, past and present. On this podcast, I will be chatting to an array of creative guests, getting a glimpse into their worlds and having some honest and inspiring conversations along the way. Welcome to Through the Creative Door.

Hello Mark Turner

00:50 - Mark (Guest)

Hello Alexis Naylor

00:51 - Alexis (Host)

How are you doing?

00:54 - Mark (Guest)

I'm lovely, it's a busy time, but here we are.

00:58 - Alexis (Host)

Well, thank you for coming and chatting to me through the Creative Door.

01:03 - Mark (Guest)

Oh, the door is wide open.

01:04 - Alexis (Host)

The door is wide open. Indeed, for those who don't know you, you are a very talented bear, does lots of things, multi-instrumentalist and doing recording things and singing things and tootie-tootie on the saxophones.

01:21 - Mark (Guest)

Jack of all trades. Well that's the aim, jack, of all trades. Yes, well, that's the aim. That's the aim. I do the things that I enjoy, you do and try to do. It helps my ADHD brain. It's self-diagnosed.

01:37 - Alexis (Host)

So, considering that you do so many different creative outlets, it's probably a hard question to ask. But what does the creative space mean to you?

01:50 - Mark (Guest)

Well, great question, and it's ever evolving, Alexis.. Creative space I mean it's like a space can be a hotel room or a toilet or a car or, in some cases, your van when I've been in it. Long drives, when you're just by yourself and you're left with complete creative freedom. But also those spaces change, like one of the biggest things I always wanted was a creative space and then I got it and I used it a lot and then, you know, circumstances change and then the neighbour next door was in my creative space workshop. The neighbour next door started living there so I couldn't be creative, like when I was creative. I felt very exposed. So for me, creative spaces are vulnerable spaces where I feel safe to explore and try ideas and see where the world takes me.

02:40 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, so that's obviously changed and evolved over time.

02:45 - Mark (Guest)

Yeah, it's fully evolved and it's just a, it's just a lovely, it’s a lovely thing to be able to have one and also to be able to especially as a travelling musician and a travelling a lot I love travel so to be able to create a creative space or be somewhere and find that rhythm is cool, I really enjoy that. I feel very fortunate to have that ability to you know set up and be creative where I need to be.

03:14 - Alexis (Host)

It's interesting because I think, well, maybe I'm projecting, but a lot of us would strive to have a studio or a creative space in that sense yeah, and then, when you get it, perhaps, like you said, definitely use it quite a lot, but then, like you, take it for granted almost.

03:34 - Mark (Guest)

Absolutely, I mean it's funny because I've had so that the space where questioning is it kind of fell about by accident. I was looking for somewhere to hold my, and harness my creativity, and it's the kind of thing. When I found it I was like this is I've found the gold mine.

03:50

And it is, it is it is the gold mine and it was. It was when those circumstances changed, maybe four years into having it where there was, you know, the neighbour situation. It changed the silver lining for me, but then I've kept it because it's still. I know that the gold is there. So I feel extremely lucky to have that space and a space that I can call mine to create in. I think if anyone can find a way to make a space that is theirs, it's one of the most joyous things. But I had an experience recently and I believe they may be on your podcast. You might have to edit this out, but, Daine, has Daine been on your podcast?

04:32

No, Cut cut paste.

04:35 - Alexis (Host)

Are you telling me that I should have him on the podcast?

04:39 - Mark (Guest)

Oh, he's a brilliant brain yeah, um, so Daine was in there recording recently and he came and he dropped the key back to me and he's like mate, that place is magic and it reinvigorated me, because a space is only as magical as it feels for you. So to see him experience that same magic that I felt, without any of the emotions being shifted because of past experience, it was just like that, is awesome and I love that he felt that and it reminded me of the magic that a place or a venue or a situation can feel. But it's okay to let things change and for that to shift.

05:15 - Alexis (Host)

You're like, oh, I want to go back in there, I want to experience the thing.

05:18 - Mark (Guest)

Absolutely. It was that kind of wow, this is actually a vibe. So I was like, wow.

05:24 - Alexis (Host)

I'm curious. I mean, you have been involved in so many ensembles. You have released lots of different music with different people. You've done lots of different projects. You've also been a videographer. Like you have been involved in so many things creative.

05:48 - Mark (Guest)

Jack hammer of all jacks.

05:49 - Alexis (Host)

Yes, yes, but I guess it's a hard question to ask Is there something that you're most proud of or is there a body of work? I know that seems like a real-loaded question, right?

06:03 - Mark (Guest)

Is there something that I'm proud of? I'm constantly proud of, I'm constantly proud of everything that I've created. So, like I'm, I see things and I'm like, oh, I'm proud of that. I look back and reminisce and I'm super proud of the (whether it be music) or all of it.

06:18

Yeah, I mean, uh, the thing that came to my mind recently was a Christmas album I did with Steve Hensby, and so Christmas is around the corner. I was like, oh yeah, I made a Christmas album once and I listened to the song. I was like God, it was just such a beautiful time and memory. And then Sam Timmerman, who is our dear friend, reshared a story of when we all lived together and we did some amazing things in COVID and it's like, wow, I'm so proud of what we achieved there. Jessie Gordon and myself just released an album and I'm super proud of that and it's just little things that I'm like along the journey you've just got to kind of like, there's moments like pat yourself on the back and go that was great, you did good, keep going, it's okay.

07:00 - Alexis (Host)

And I don't know about you, but, and I don't know about you. But I find it's hard to do that sometimes. And it actually is a real conscious effort. Once you've finished a project, released it, put it out to the world. Well, this is how I feel anyway to actually take a minute and be like actually, yeah, I did a thing, yeah because you're so caught up, because you're caught on to the next thing, moving on to the next thing

07:25 - Mark (Guest)

And that is hard because you just, especially for my brain I'm here, there and everywhere, so to stop and take stock is a challenge, but yeah, I'm just stoked that I get to, I guess at the core of it is like how cool is it that we can create stuff in our lives and share them with others?

07:47 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah.

07:48 - Mark (Guest)

So that to me is I'm super. I guess at the core of it I'm proud to have a body of life that I get to share with others who also enjoy it. So you know, it's not just I guess it's hard to pinpoint any one thing, it's all of the bits.

08:03 - Alexis (Host)

All of the bits in all of the things. Yeah, on the flip side of something proud, do you think that there's something that's challenged your creativity and if so, what was the major lesson?

08:18 - Mark (Guest)

Something that challenged my creativity. The first thing that comes to my brain is remembering COVID as an entity and then coming back out of COVID, because you and I, Alexis, had a very different COVID to most people, where most people went quite inside and quiet and found their own space and did what they did we want. We turned our house into essentially a nightclub slash music venue, which I'm incredibly proud of.

08:51

But it was the kind of thing where it became this creative, uh, mega space and all nothing was off limits. So that to me, was the first time. I was like whoa. I haven't felt freedom like this in years. So it was this really like no one was. I didn't have to be, and I guess in a lot of ways, I don't have to be accountable. I'm accountable for every decision I make, but in that moment I was in control of every decision that I was making for me and us musically.

09:19

And then, when the world switched back on in Perth specifically, it was so intense with the amount of work we had, the amount of well, we just had to get back on with it, because that's what I was programmed to do and it was a really challenging mindset to go. But you had the best time of your life in this window of creativity and you've now, basically, you were in neutral, the engine was going, everything was cool and then in COVID, we switched the engine off and relaxed and now not only is the engine on, we're like on sixth gear. Full speed ahead.

09:55

We're on the Kwinana Freeway, pelting down to somewhere who knows.

10:01 - Alexis (Host)

Wait, surely there's a faster..

10:05 - Mark (Guest)

Yeah, maybe Brand Highway, who knows? Yeah, Kwinana Freeway is definitely not the right analogy, but you know what I mean Great Southern Road or something, caning it down the freeway and it's like whoa, that was hard because I was like, oh, I am burning myself at every candle. I basically got six candles, which I also do enjoy, but it’s alot.

10:28

So I was just like whoa, this is crazy, crazy, so I don't know that, that to me was challenging, and it's still a challenge to consider what that looks like

10:40 - Alexis (Host)

what do you think the major lesson is there, though, like how do you come through from that?

10:43

Well, I'm not learning from that. I'm not listening to my own heart, but I guess the lesson is is to allow space for creativity, and it's something that that I've tried to do with Jessie in terms of our writing and our time. We create time to be creative and just booking in me time, which is so hard to do, it's so hard to dedicate time for you, for yourself. So, as I sit here preaching about something that I don't do, I'm going to analyze that and think more about my life choices but ultimately, it's a balance right it's all just a balance.

11:23

I love everything that I get to do, so I love the work that I get to do. It's so varied and exciting, but there is also, the challenge is finding the balance to be me and produce my own me to the world that they can see. Um, but I guess you know, yeah, exactly what I said. There's me in everything that I'm currently doing, but there's also the other me that wants to maybe create and do more freedom-based things that we had in that period.

11:56 - Alexis (Host)

You definitely get I don't want to say pigeonholed, but like it's easy when we're already in those lanes to then just keep going down those paths without re-imagining. It takes a lot of effort to reimagine something, I think.

12:11 - Mark (Guest)

Yeah, absolutely, and it's also. I mean, we've got to earn money, at the end of the day, you've got to exist, and that, to me, is the core of it, like, okay, we've got to just do that, but then also there's, you know, we've got to make space for all these things.

12:27 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, to let the creativity out. Let it out, let it out.

12:30 - Mark (Guest)

Let it out, be free.

12:36 - Alexis (Host)

Is there any object or possession that you can't live without when you're creating. Like something sentimental or something like super..

12:49 - Mark (Guest)

Oh yeah, they're all tools. Yeah, I mean my saxophone's pretty sentimental, but even if someone told me they melted it down into a cupcake or something, or like a teacup, I'd be like, oh that's really weird, why would you do that? And then I'd just go and find another saxophone.

13:04 - Alexis (Host)

That was my saxophone, but okay, yeah, why'd you do that?

13:07 - Mark (Guest)

I love my acoustic and electric guitar, but you know they're wood and I'm very attached to them and they're mine, but at the end of the day it's a tool that helps me create and be. I reckon I'd be lost without my friendships. I think that is the things that you can't, that would be, they're probably the most important things.

13:31 - Alexis (Host)

Okay.

13:31 - Mark (Guest)

The things that if I lost those I'd be pretty sad. But for me, everything I mean you know data. Data is make sure you back up your content in three places, or those that doesn't exist, that you know, but then if you've got it three places, it does exist, so it's fine. But data you know, like memories, content, that those are the things that once you've created something.

13:58 - Alexis (Host)

Making sure you've got it everywhere.

13:59 - Mark (Guest)

Make sure you don't lose it. But yeah, there's nothing that springs to like, if the house was burning right now and I had to grab something, I mean I'd grab my laptop because it's got all the data on it. The laptop is just a tool. I'd probably grab my saxophone and my acoustic and my electric guitar, my memory box. Oh God, you, just you know. These are the order of.

14:19 - Alexis (Host)

You need a container to take all the things before the fire gets in.

14:27 - Mark (Guest)

Well, I bought fireproof boxes, so everything is hopefully nothing, touch wood. No pun intended about the wood, but yeah, I mean, I love my vinyl collection. That would be really hard to replace. There's a lot there and it's come from all over the world. But yeah, nothing that, I'm just trying to think what's in there? No, it's all just stuff. But I love stuff.

14:44 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, but you can create you can start again.

14:50 - Mark (Guest)

I mean, I had a moment the other day my friend who I'm teaching I gave a few lessons to on the saxophone and her name is Fernanda and she's moved down south and she's just starting her musical journey and I had a spare keyboard piano controller. I was like, you should take this. And she's like Mark, my world has exploded, everything has changed and it's like one thing that I didn't even use anymore, like I've got pianos everywhere. I just and for her it's like changed her life and it's just one little thing, it’s like, you know, they're just tools to help you get to unlock doors no, also lso, maybe this piano accordion. I got that when I was a kid. I'd be pretty sad if I lost that

15:36 - Alexis (Host)

As in, someone gifted it to you?

15:37 - Mark (Guest)

Well, no I purchased it, it was one of my first instruments that I was learning

15:43 - Alexis (Host)

oh, really, yeah, but I I how old were you?

15:46 - Mark (Guest)

Oh, 10, 11.

15:47 - Alexis (Host)

And that was what you chose at 10?

15:48 - Mark (Guest)

Well, I chose the piano. I wanted to be a rock and roll piano-er, but I was pretty bad at it. I was pretty shit at piano.

15:57

But the guy who taught me also learned piano accordion. So we yeah, that was I had to get, and my grandfather played piano accordion, so I started on his and then we found this one and then, you know, hit 12 and found the saxophone and then put the piano accordion back in its case. But I've ended up using it a few times recently in recordings. And you know, weird, I played in a Billy Joel tribute band. That was weird. Yeah, it is vibe, but you know, sentimentality is. Yeah, that's a great question. I like it. I take my friends with me. If the house is burning, you and me go to the pub. After we put the fire out.

16:36 - Alexis (Host)

eah, yeah, yeah, we'll try it at least. If you could give one piece of advice, one nugget of gold to another creative. What would it be?

16:54 - Mark (Guest)

Oh God, there's so many, Mum always said everything in moderation.

16:57 - Mark (Guest)

But, that's not advice. No, the first thing that pops into my head is it's fine, it doesn't, there's, like whatever happens will happen and whatever the journey is, it's going to be fine. And I think I get so caught up worrying. I remember when I was 30, I was like I'm done, my time's over. I was 35. I'm like I'm done. I'm 35. Who cares? No one's going care and I'm like what happens, my hair goes gray and I lose them. Who cares? It doesn't matter. Like everyone's gonna be with you on the journey and no one goes to experience art to have a bad time. Everyone always goes out to have a good time.

17:35

So, like, take the pressure off yourself and it will work out and it's so hard to, and I mean this is I'm internalizing my feedback, saying it doesn't matter. It just doesn't matter If you, if you do you know, we start a project, you don't finish it. It doesn't matter, it's okay,

17:52 - Alexis (Host)

It's also okay to pick it back up years later.

17:58 - Mark (Guest)

Yeah. It's, but it's, it's. It's so internally hard to. There's just so much pressure in this world and my favourite thing is when I meet someone and I can just tell that their steam valve is off. There's no more steam, they're just relaxed. I'm like, oh, that looks like a nice time. Where's my steam valve? Maybe it's in my butthole.

18:20 - Alexis (Host)

How do I turn it off?

18:21 - Mark (Guest)

How do I release all this steam? How do I do it? But that's also part of what makes me me, so I wouldn't change that part of it. But I think it's just relaxing in the journey and it's like you can get caught up on so many parts of this life and it's like the journey is the part that is the best bit, the adventure, and it doesn't matter, just keep going, keep enjoying, keep doing whatever it is, and if it doesn't work, it's fine.

18:48 - Alexis (Host)

Yeah, try something else yeah.

18:51 - Mark (Guest)

And, at the end of the day, whatever you've done and whatever you've created, it's amazing. Even if it's just your mum that likes it, that's fine. My mum does like it.

19:01 - Alexis (Host)

I was just about to say how great are mums my mum always likes it too,

19:26 - Mark (Guest)

Yeah so we're very, very lucky,

19:10 - Alexis (Host)

We are very lucky to do what we do. Would you have any advice on like resources or books or I don't know podcasts. Any references if someone wanted to, I don't know do what you do yeah.

19:29 - Mark (Guest)

Well, if you do want to do what I do.

19:33

Well, I mean, I'm an interesting case study in that I struggle with certain kinds of education. I've taught myself most of the things I know, but, you know, the biggest lesson that I've ever learned is by watching others and being around people who are very good at what we do. I'll never forget being in a room I don't know just started learning. I learned guitar when I was 14. And I think when I joined Adam Hall's band I was 21. And he asked me, invited me, to go on tour with a guy called Big Jay McNeely, who is no longer with us. But he was this killer honk and sax. He was like the definition of honk and sax, Like he was this old cat. He had his first hit in 1949, and Adam had brought him over to tour Australia. And we're sitting in the hotel room. I've just met Big Jay, he's sitting on the bed with his saxophone that's cut, painted fluoro orange. I'm like who is this dude?

And he puts the sacks to his mouth and he honks a note louder than uh, if the heavens opened up and a saxophone appeared and started playing. It was louder than that and all of us in the room, except Adam, who'd heard him before like whoa, holy shit, balls like. This guy played so loud and it was so clear and so much passion in one note. I was like, oh my, we are serious. And so we started playing and I was playing guitar and he's and, and this Big J just knew what he wanted. He's like to the dominant, go to the dominant man. I was like what is a dominant? I wouldn't know a dominant if it slapped me in the face and I was like I don't know and Adam's like, just go to the C.

He was helping me. I was like I don't know what this means.

21:15 - Mark (Guest)

And so we're playing and Big J was just saying things and Adam was helping me. It was amazing, but it was one of those moments like you've got to learn fast there's, you've got to get your butt into gear, and it was one of those moments like I learned more in a 40 minute rehearsal than I did in the last six years of playing guitar.

21:31

The six years had led to that moment for sure it had the, but it was, it was in that moment that my ass got handed to me and it was in that moment and I I there are vivid moments of my life. I remember recording my first ever. I was playing drums, recording and Kieran Candores, I was 17. I was playing with an ensemble. We were making a Christmas album. I don't know why I can't drink Christmas albums, but I was 17.

21:55

I remember Kieran setting up the mics on my drum kit and he's an incredible engineer here in Perth and he put these mics in place and I was watching him and I was like, why did you do that? Why did you do that? And he was so kind, he told me all this information and I went out. It was the next five years. I bought every single mic that he put on that drum kit. I learned every single thing that he did and it changed my life. I remember going to watch Trevor Jeller. The first time I saw someone play guitar live, it was Howie Morgan and Trevor Jeller and these guys are so cool. I remember being underage, going to the Universal Bar and just being like, oh my God, that's what I want to do.

22:31

You know it's those moments of like deep connection, watching, sucking every piece of knowledge from that experience and then learning how, like almost reverse engineering, just geeking out, yeah and now we're so lucky to have youtube and you can you can watch, you the people you admire on the internet now, like that, and it's like you can learn this stuff. But getting hands-on with the people that inspire you or that you learn from, is the people that inspire you or that you learn from is, I think, hands down. It happened to me the other week, James Newhouse recorded our Jesse and I's new duo album and we wanted to have him mix it, so I went down and sat with him and it was just like six hours of hang. But I think I learned more in six hours than I have in two years.

23:18 - Mark (Guest)

Same with saxophone. I've been playing sax my whole life. I don't know what I'm doing. I had lessons as a kid. I had one lesson with Matt Stiles, who's one of the lead lecturers at UWA, I think, or WAAPA, and we sat and we had one hour lesson and he kind of was like, just play a scale. And he was like, okay, I see what you're doing, but have you tried doing this? And he said one thing that just changed everything and I was like I'm gonna have to go away for a year and understand what you just said.

23:47

And it took me a year to work on it and it was like it's like little moments like that. All it takes is a little. You know, yeah, 180 degrees, flip it upside down and look at it in a different way, and you're like, holy shit, that changed my life. Um, and for those playing along at home, it was just, you know, open your like, drop your larynx, drop everything and allow the air to just go power through. I was like, whoa, that explains that's why I can't play saxophone. Now I can. Thanks Matt Stiles. You know little things like that. You're like, holy, shit. Blows your brain. You're like, oh, I never thought of that.

24:24 - Alexis (Host)

Love it. One last question. if you could hear anyone answer these questions on the podcast.

24:30 - Mark (Guest)

Who would it be? I, I mean my, the people that I really look up to. Like James Newhouse is a great example. He's such an interesting fellow and so inspiring. I'd love to hear his thoughts on these questions. Yeah, people that I look up to is, find all them and ask them all these questions, because then I can learn more.

24:47 - Alexis (Host)

Big list.

24:49 - Alexis (Host)

My goodness Mark Turner.

24:51 - Mark (Guest)

Alexis.

24:52 - Alexis (Host)

Thank you so much for being here and coming through the creative door.

24:57 - Mark (Guest)

Oh, I enjoyed being in the door of my own house, the creative space of love, arigato gozaimasu. It's been an absolute joy. Bye.

25:10 - Alexis (Host)

Bye.