S03E30 - Matt Huber & Kohei Saito on Growth, Progress and Left Imaginaries

Future Histories

Kohei Saito and Matt Huber discuss degrowth communism, socialist ecomodernism and their respective views on growth, natural limits, technology and progress.

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If you are interested in democratic economic planning, these resources might be of help:

Democratic planning – an information website

https://www.democratic-planning.com/

Sorg, C. & Groos, J. (eds.)(2025). Rethinking Economic Planning. Competition & Change Special Issue Volume 29 Issue 1.

https://journals.sagepub.com/toc/ccha/29/1

Groos, J. & Sorg, C. (2025). Creative Construction - Democratic Planning in the 21st Century and Beyond. Bristol University Press. [for a review copy, please contact: amber.lanfranchi[at]bristol.ac.uk]

https://bristoluniversitypress.co.uk/creative-construction

International Network for Democratic Economic Planning

https://www.indep.network/

Democratic Planning Research Platform:

https://www.planningresearch.net/
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Shownotes

Kohei Saito at University of Tokyo:

https://www.u-tokyo.ac.jp/focus/en/people/k0001_04217.html

Saito is chair of the “Beyond Capitalism: War Economy and Democratic Planning” Program at The New Institute:

https://thenew.institute/en/programs/beyond-capitalism-war-economy-and-democratic-planning

Matt Huber at Syracuse University:

https://www.maxwell.syr.edu/directory/matthew-t-huber

Saito, K. (2024). Slow Down: How Degrowth Communism can save the Earth. W&N.

https://www.weidenfeldandnicolson.co.uk/titles/kohei-saito/slow-down/9781399612999/

Saito, K. (2023). Marx in the Anthropocene: Towards the Idea of Degrowth Communism. Cambridge University Press.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/marx-in-the-anthropocene/D58765916F0CB624FCCBB61F50879376

Saito, K. (2017). Karl Marx’s Ecosocialism: Capital, Nature, and the Unfinished Critique of Political Economy. Monthly Review Press.

https://monthlyreview.org/product/karl_marxs_ecosocialism/

Huber, M. T. (2022). Climate Change as Class War: Building Socialism on a Warming Planet. Verso Books.

https://www.versobooks.com/products/775-climate-change-as-class-war?srsltid=AfmBOop0wE8Ljdd-lZjDF-9-RZ_QvjRz2f3EobOv3AYEVpcqMDssRUd9

Huber, M. T. (2013). Lifeblood: Oil, Freedom, and the Forces of Capital. University of Minnesota Press.

https://www.upress.umn.edu/9780816677856/lifeblood/

Matt Huber’s and Leigh Philipps’s review of Saito’s recent work:

https://jacobin.com/2024/03/kohei-saito-degrowth-communism-environment-marxism

on Huber’s critique of degrowth:

https://jacobin.com/2023/07/degrowth-climate-change-economic-planning-production-austerity

more articles on Jacobin by Huber:

https://jacobin.com/author/matt-huber

Matt Huber’s medium blog:

https://medium.com/@Matthuber78

On Ecomodernism:

https://thebreakthrough.org/ecomodernism

Matt Huber’s stance on the term “Ecomodernism”:

https://medium.com/@Matthuber78/clarifications-on-ecomodernism-3b159cafb836

on Vaclav Smil:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vaclav_Smil

chapter on machinery and modern industry in Marx’s Capital Vol.1:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1867-c1/ch15.htm

on Eco-Marxism/Ecosocialism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-socialism

Reading guide on Ecology & Marxism by Andreas Malm:

https://www.historicalmaterialism.org/ecology-marxism-andreas-malm/

on GDP:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gross_domestic_product

Schmelzer, M. (2016). The Hegemony of Growth: The OECD and the Making of the Economic Growth Paradigm. Cambridge University Press.

https://www.cambridge.org/core/books/hegemony-of-growth/A80C4DF19D804C723D55A5EFE7A447FD

on the „Green New Deal”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_New_Deal

Pollin, R. (2018) De-Growth vs. a Green New Deal. New Left Review Issue 112.

https://newleftreview.org/issues/ii112/articles/robert-pollin-de-growth-vs-a-green-new-deal

Hickel, J. (2020). What does degrowth mean? A few points of clarification. Globalizations, 18(7), 1105–1111.

https://blogs.law.columbia.edu/utopia1313/files/2022/11/What-does-degrowth-mean-A-few-points-of-clarification.pdf

on Malthusianism:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malthusianism

Harvey, D. (1974). Population, Resources, and the Ideology of Science. Economic Geography, 50(3), 256–277.

https://www.uky.edu/~tmute2/GEI-Web/password-protect/GEI-readings/harvey%20population.pdf

the „Limits to Growth” report from 1972:

https://www.clubofrome.org/publication/the-limits-to-growth/

Hickel, J. (2019) Degrowth: A Theory of Radical Abundance. Real-World Economics Review Issue 87.

https://static1.squarespace.com/static/59bc0e610abd04bd1e067ccc/t/5cb6db356e9a7f14e5322a62/1555487546989/Hickel+-+Degrowth%2C+A+Theory+of+Radical+Abundance.pdf

on Planetary Boundaries:

https://www.stockholmresilience.org/research/planetary-boundaries.html

Earl C. Ellies:

https://ges.umbc.edu/ellis/

on “Decoupling”:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eco-economic_decoupling

Christophers, B. (2024). The Price is Wrong: Why Capitalism Won’t Save the Planet. Verso Books.

https://www.versobooks.com/products/3069-the-price-is-wrong?srsltid=AfmBOorFVDdqKegvmh1GA8ku3xla4rBjygkm0iwPL5VXF-BH-O1WOkMo

on the Haber-Bosch Process:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haber_process

Smil, V. (2004). Enriching the Earth: Fritz Haber, Carl Bosch, and the Transformation of World Food Production. MIT Press.

https://mitpress.mit.edu/9780262693134/enriching-the-earth/

Smil, V. (2016). Power Density: A Key to Understanding Energy Sources and Uses. MIT Press.

https://direct.mit.edu/books/monograph/4023/Power-DensityA-Key-to-Understanding-Energy-Sources

on Mining and the Green Energy Transition:

https://soundcloud.com/novaramedia/novara-fm-clean-energy-is-already-terraforming-the-earth-w-thea-riofrancos

Marx’s letter to Vera Zasulich:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1881/zasulich/index.htm

Marx’s “Preface” to “A Contribution to the Critique of Political Economy”:

https://www.marxists.org/archive/marx/works/1859/critique-pol-economy/preface.htm

Future Histories Episodes on Related Topics

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https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e23-andreas-malm-on-overshooting-into-climate-breakdown/

S03E03 | Planning for Entropy on Sociometabolic Planning

https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e03-planning-for-entropy-on-sociometabolic-planning/

S03E02 | George Monbiot on Public Luxury

https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s03/e02-george-monbiot-on-public-luxury/

S02E55 | Kohei Saito on Degrowth Communism

https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e55-kohei-saito-on-degrowth-communism/

S02E47 | Matt Huber on Building Socialism, Climate Change & Class War

https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e47-matt-huber-on-building-socialism-climate-change-class-war/

S02E18 | Drew Pendergrass and Troy Vettese on Half Earth Socialism

https://www.futurehistories-international.com/episodes/s02/e18-drew-pendergrass-and-troy-vettese-on-half-earth-socialism/

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Episode Keywords

#MattHuber, #KoheiSaito, #Podcast, #JanGroos, #Interview, #FutureHistories, #futurehistoriesinternational, #FutureHistoriesInternational, #Degrowth, #Socialism, #Capitalism, #GreenNewDeal, #ClimateJustice, #WorkingClass, #PoliticalEconomy, #ClimateCrisis, #FossilCapitalism, #EcoSocialism, #Marx, #DemocraticEconomicPlanning, #Class, #ClassStruggle, #DemocraticPlanning, #DegrowthCommunism, #PostCapitalism, #ClimatePolitics, #RadicalEcology, #JustTransition, #Prometheanism, #Communism, #Progress