#36: An Intro to Kink, with Wesley Toma

Love Is Us: Exploring Relationships and How We Connect

If you’re unfamiliar with the world of kink and BDSM, you might be surprised by some of the things in this episode. Introducing elements of kink into your relationship with your partner can reinvigorate things in the bedroom and add a spark to your marriage or partnership. That, however, is just one of kink’s potential benefits, as you’ll hear in this episode with Wesley Toma.

Wesley is a Master Certified Relationship and Intimacy Coach and Sex Educator, with over 10 years of experience coaching and advocating for the LGBTQIA+ and Kink communities, including Polyamory, Ethical non-monogamy, Kink, BDSM, and other non-traditional relationships. His goal in life is to help you navigate the sometimes scary world of relationships to become better partners, negotiators, and communicators. As an androsexual, kinky male, Wesley fully connects with you to develop a safe space to support and help you to improve all aspects of your relationships.

Wesley’s website: https://wesleytoma.com/

Karin’s website and email:

https://drcalde.com

[e-mail]

Resources for learning more about kink:

An online, discreet sex shop: Good Vibrations

Books about kink: The Ethical Slut & Books by Midori

Dating app/site for men: Recon

Find a kink community: Fetlife

TRANSCRIPT

Podcast Intro:

[00:00] Karin: This is Love Is Us, Exploring Relationships and How We Connect. I'm your host, Karin Calde. I'll talk with people about how we can strengthen our relationships, explore who we are in those relationships, and experience a greater sense of love and connection with those around us, including ourselves. I have a PhD in clinical Psychology, practiced as a psychologist resident, and after diving into my own healing work, I went back to school and became a coach, helping individuals and couples with their relationships and personal growth. If you want to experience more love in your life and contribute to healing the disconnect so prevalent in our world today, you're in the right place. Welcome to Love is Us.

Episode Intro:

Karin: Hello, everybody. For this last episode of Sexy September, I wanted to talk about something that might be a little bit new for a lot of you, because we do better when we can step outside of our comfort zone and discover something that can make our relationships and our lives better. So today we talk about Kink. Now, it might not be for you, and that's 100% okay, too, but it still might be helpful for you to know a little bit more about it. Now, as someone who dedicates her life to helping others improve their lives, I was really intrigued when I learned about the therapeutic value of Kink and BDSM. Now, don't get me wrong, it's also valuable simply if that's what you want to do and you enjoy it, but you might find it intriguing to know how it can help you. Wesley Toma is my guest today. He's a certified relationship and intimacy coach and sex educator with over ten years of experience coaching and advocating for the LGTBQIA Plus and Kink communities. And he's got a really nice, gentle demeanor. In addition to talking about what Kink is and the benefits of practicing it and the misconceptions about it, we talk about taking consent to the next level and how those in the Kink community do this so very well. We talk about sex shops and what a great resource they can be. If you haven't been to one in the past 20 years or so, you might be surprised by them. Wesley and I both offer some other ways that you can also learn more about Kink. People are naturally sexual beings, and sex is an important part of relationships. So if you liked any of the episodes this month, I've got more in the works. And Love is US will get more people's attention. If you can leave me a review and share episodes with others, I would so, so appreciate it. So thanks again for being here. And here we go.

Oh, real quick, there was just something I wanted to make sure that I offered to all of you who listen to this episode. It's something I'm only offering for a short period of time, but it's something that I created for people who want to be able to talk about sex with their partner if they know it's important, but they're not quite sure how to do it or how to get started. And so I created these questions to help get you there. If that sounds interesting to you, it's completely free. Just send me an email to [e-mail]. I'll have that address in the show notes, and in the subject line put twelve questions and I'll make sure to get those to you. All right, thanks again. Here we go.

Karin: Hi Wesley. Thanks for joining me.

[03:38] Wes: Thank you.

[03:39] Karin: Yeah, I really appreciate having the opportunity to have this know, we're talking today about Kink BDSM, and generally with my clients it's a little bit more vanilla. And I think it would be better for my clients if my understanding of kink and other alternatives is broader. So I really appreciate you coming on here and educating me, but also educating my listeners because I think that they tend to be a little bit more on the vanilla sex spectrum spectrum of things. Yeah. It's really great to have you here.

[04:24] Wes: Yeah, thank you.

[04:25] Karin: So tell us where you are in the world.

[04:27] Wes: So I live in Boston, east coast boy, born and raised. Lived in the west coast for most of my twenty s actually. But how it came back and I've been kind of Boston pretty much my whole life except for that little stint.

[04:43] Karin: Okay. And what drew you there? Because I know you said you lived elsewhere for a little while. What drew you back?

[04:51] Wes: I was young, I wanted to go back to college. And I figured having family support around me would be better for very, very mistaken on that point, unfortunately. But I would say I would regret have coming home because I loved living in La. The only reason I don't regret coming home is because had I not come home, I would have never met my husband.

[05:15] Karin: So there was a happy ending, so to speak. Oh, good. That's great. Well, tell me what you do for work.

[05:24] Wes: Sure. So I am a relationship and intimacy coach. I focus mostly on the queer and king communities. I help people with their relationships. I help people explore new sides of their relationship. I help people kind of try to be more comfortable with who they are in their own skin working with. In the kink world. I do work with Some out and proud kinksters, but I also work with People who kind of thinking about it. But if there's a lot of negativity and misinformation behind it, so a lot of it is dispelling the falsehoods and trying to be very as sex positive as I can and show people that you can feel this way, you can have these desires and still be you're, still okay. You're still breaking a breakthrough.

[06:15] Karin: Yeah. So helping people see that even if they don't do things like society tells them they're supposed to, they're still totally normal and it's okay then there's nothing wrong with them. Yeah. And that's so important. It's so easy to make people feel like they're broken or bad. Yeah. That's a problem.

[06:41] Wes: And honestly, what's interesting about it, if you look back at the history of kink, it didn't start. It's not a recent thing. It's something that hundreds and hundreds of years the ancient Greeks were king\ksters. The fathers of science were kinksters. People back in Egypt, they practiced kink. You can see writings and images of kink play before it had a label. It wasn't until relatively recently that it became more shunned infopod.

[07:17] Karin: Yeah. So it's not like this is a modern aberration or something like that. Right. I want to back up just a bit. You mentioned the term, and I'm familiar with it, but I don't know if my listeners are and that is the term sex positive. What is your understanding of that term?

[07:38] Wes: My understanding of that term is basically not you don't sex shame. Sex is normal. However you do it, however you like it, and however you feel it, there's nothing wrong with you whether you have sex or you don't have sex. Being ace is just as. Okay. Not being ace, for those who may not know, are asexual. People who do not have sex or don't enjoy it no matter what, sex is normal. Sex work is normal. It can be very therapeutic and helpful in certain situations, too. Again, another long-standing profession that recently has become negative. So, yeah, for me, positive is just shining a light and showing people that this is us, this is who you are, and it's okay to be you. It's okay to be you, whatever the you are.

[08:36] Karin: Yeah. And I might just add that caveat, of course, unless it's against somebody else's permission, and of course, if it involves unwanted pain, that's where we might draw the line. But other than that, yeah. There's no other reason why we need to shame people for their choices.

[08:56] Wes: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, one of the things I always felt, especially being a Kingston myself, is consent and negotiation are the two most important things. And honestly, these are things that I think a lot of vanilla people should learn, because people don't think about consent. They don't think about a negotiation, pre seen or pre sex negotiation. And these are very important. So, yeah, like you said, as long as you're both consenting adults and everything has been pre agreed upon, do what you want.

[09:24] Karin: Have fun. Yeah. So how did you get into this work?

[09:28] Wes: So I was a Kinkster first. That's not true. I was a not practicing coach first, but that kind of got put on the back burner because I didn't really know what to do with it. And then I became a Kinkster. Me and my husband kind of started exploring kink and became we both now are now out proud Kinksters. We attend events and all that stuff. And when I decided to look into coaching. I wanted to coach on something that I knew, which is what you really should do. Coach on what you know. And one thing I know is I know sex, I know relationships, I know kink, and I know being queer. So I figured, let me put all those together and talk about and help people understand that side of them.

[10:25] Karin: Yeah. And my guess is that you've explored a lot of that, or you have experienced rather a lot of that shaming in your past because of your identity.

[10:37] Wes: I come from not to get too political, which obviously, but basically, I come from a very Christian based Republican family, where I've had I don't know what's the language barriers on this. Should I keep it clean?

[10:55] Karin: Oh, you can say whatever you want.

[10:58] Wes: It's all swear. But it's a very offensive word. My brother one time said to me, I love you because you're my brother, but I can't stand those faggots. So this is the world I grew up in. My family doesn't know I'm a Kingster, and that's fine. They don't need to know. But yeah. So I've experienced a lot of shame. I've experienced a lot of hate. I'm 40 something. I came out in a time when it wasn't very safe to come out. Today, it's pretty dangerous to come out in this day and age. Imagine 2025 years ago when I came out, it was even worse. So I've experienced a lot of that, and I think it's made me who I am, and it's definitely made me a better person. I wish I didn't have to experience it, but I don't necessarily think I would give it up, because I think without it, I wouldn't be the person I am.

[11:49] Karin: And I am guessing that it also makes you a much more empathetic coach because you've experienced a real struggle when it comes to your identity.

[11:59] Wes: Absolutely. I understand. People come to me and say, hey, this is how I feel. But I'm scared to tell people. I'm scared to tell my husband. I'm scared to tell my wife. I'm scared to tell my family. I get it. It's not like you're admitting you lost your job or something. People are more okay with that than okay with what you do in the privacy of your own bedroom dungeon. Whatever. I completely understand that, and I get behind it.

[12:27] Karin: And.

[12:29] Wes: One thing I say is, I never tell you what you should and shouldn't do in terms of who you tell. That's up to you. And that's up to what your comfort level. So, yes, I want you to feel comfortable in your skin. I want you to feel like you're okay with yourself and it's okay to be okay with you and still be secret to those who that don't need to know.

[12:53] Karin: Yeah, I agree with that. Yeah. At some point, you do need to protect yourself and make sure you're okay.

[12:59] Wes: Yeah. Ultimately, it is about protecting you first. Yeah.

[13:05] Karin: So tell us what's your definition of kink?

[13:11] Wes: My definition of kink is so I'm going to caveat that a little bit with a definition and comparison of kink and fetish because those two things get used as one. But to me they're very different things. There are two ends of a spectrum. Basically, like everything else is a spectrum, kink and fetish is also a spectrum. Kink for me is things you like that make you feel good that aren't the normal that you do to get pleasure. A fetish are things that you like that are, I should say, the normal, I should say, outside the body, external sources bringing you pleasure. Kink is something you want, fetish is something you need. So basically, if you're somebody who enjoys a spanking, you can still have sex without spanking, but you like it, that's a kink. If you can't get off unless someone spanks you, that's a fetish.

[14:15] Karin: Okay, so that's interesting. And then you also had told me before that if you ever use a sex toy absolutely.

[14:21] Wes: Yeah, well, that's what I said.

[14:22] Karin: That's kink.

[14:23] Wes: Anything external of your body technically is a kink. So if you are a person that has used a vibrator, if you are a person that has used a masturbator, that's a kink. I'm not going to say you're a kinkster, but you have a little bit of a kinky side. Spanking is huge. People do it for fun and it's life and that's a kink. You don't have to make someone ask Red Raw to be a kinkster. It's still a kink.

[14:53] Karin: And we also hear the term BDSM. So how does kink differ from BDSM?

[15:02] Wes: For me, BDSM is just another word for KANK. BDSM, it's a conglomeration of terms, stands for so the BD is bondage and discipline, the DS is domination and submission and the SM is sadism and masochism. So it kind of covers all of what kink kind of entails. So it's not just like one term, it kind of covers any aspect. And kink is the same thing, it's just a different way. To me, they're basically the same thing, just phrased differently.

[15:41] Karin: But does there tend to be a little bit more of a power differential or power play when it comes to BDSM?

[15:49] Wes: A power exchange, it doesn't have to necessarily be BDSM. The power exchange kind of falls under the dominant submission heading for the most part, where the dominant is in power over the submissive. But that is also a kink. It's the same thing. It's a more focused side of the kink. Just like foot, kink is a focused part of the kink. The power exchange, that's a focus part of the king.

[16:18] Karin: Can you give us a rundown on what all those words in BDSM actually mean?

[16:26] Wes: So bondage and mean, those are pretty easy. bondages being tied up. Discipline is being basically scolded or taught or trained. And if you make a mistake, you're.

[16:40] Karin: Punished, but in a way that you want to be. This is a turn on.

[16:44] Wes: Yes. And it is a very interesting format because when it comes to especially when you come to the dominant submissive side of things, there is a side of it where there is a training that happens. Dominant is basically training the submissive to be the perfect submissive. The submissive agrees to this, they usually have a long conversation ahead of time. A lot of DS relationships have a written contract not legally binding, but it's something that they can refer to. And if the submissive does not do a thing properly or doesn't do what they're supposed to, there is punishment. And it may not be necessarily an enjoyable punishment, but they agree to that because it's a learning, teaching thing. So where a lot of people do love punishment, some relationships will do it as a form of discipline to train. But again, something that both sides have agreed upon. It's 100% a consensual. There's a thing in kink that we call that the term is rack. It's risk aware consensual kink. It's what a lot of people kind of base their kink off of. It's like one of those catchphrases. So a lot of these relationships basically follow the rack. It's like, yes, we are aware there is risk, we are aware there are things that could happen and we are both consenting and agreeing and okay with this happening. And in every situation that's always enough. So if the punishment is too much, the submissive can basically safe word out.

[18:21] Karin: Yeah. So they have a word they can say the safe word to say, we need to stop this. So everyone has a degree of control.

[18:29] Wes: Another misconception is the submissive. At least the way I practice kink, the way I think most people should practice kink is the submissive is actually in control because the dominant is there to facilitate and if something happens, the submissive has got to be the one most likely to say for it out or to stop the scene. And the dominant can but it doesn't happen nearly as often and the dominant needs to respect the submissive enough to stop immediately because that's what you're supposed to do. So, yes, it looks like the dominant is in charge because the dominant is in charge of the scene. But the submissive in my world is in charge of the entire situation. They can, at the drop of a word, stop everything.

[19:15] Karin: Yeah. And so I want to back up just a little bit to the bondage word. So many people might not know that there are lots of ways that you can practice bondage. Right? Yeah. They have like ropes and ties that are actually very comfortable.

[19:33] Wes: There's an entire genre of kinksters that are rope ties and it's called shabari. It's based off of an old Chinese practice of rope tying. I can't remember what exactly shabari stands for, what it means, but it's basically at the time, it was like tying rope on women and binding them in certain ways where not only is it binding and restrictive, but it's beautiful and it follows certain patterns and certain standards and certain rules. You don't just tie a rope around someone's wrist because if you tie it too tight, you cut a circulation, you can hurt them. It's about learning how to tie on the body, how to manipulate the body in a way that it's not going to hurt somebody, it's not going to feel uncomfortable, but it's still going to be very restrictive so they can't move. Some Shabari artists are amazing, but then you have other people who just a bondage where it's like you just tie them into a bed with the handcuffs or cup links or cup, whatever. You can duct tape somebody. There's a Saran Wrap is a big one. There's a whole bunch of ways to bind somebody.

[20:44] Karin: You can get really creative.

[20:45] Wes: Creative. I've seen some very creative ones, too.

[20:48] Karin: Okay, so let's keep going with the terms.

[20:53] Wes: The next would be dominant and submissive. Dominant basically is the quote unquote top. Not necessarily always the top, but that's usually what you thought. They're the ones that are in control. They have the ones that look to be in control of the relationship. They're the ones that are making the decisions. They're the ones that are making the rules. They're the ones that are dishing out the punishment and the reward. And the submissive is the person who is basically giving up their, I don't want to say their freedom, but they're giving up their choices to somebody to make those choices for them, to make those decisions for them. It is very freeing for those. If you think about, for example, some of the biggest submissives are like huge Fortune 500 CEOs where they have to make every single decision in their life so they'll see a dom, so they can have some time where they don't make any decision. It's not up to them, it's up to somebody else to choose. And a lot of people like to be in that situation. It is a very freeing especially when you can get into what they call subspace, when you kind of get your brain kind of gets into a certain mindset of being in that position and you kind of just kind of basically flow and meld into it. They love it.

[22:07] Karin: Yeah, I've heard. And this is really interesting and it makes a lot of sense to me that people who are usually in a submissive role can find that dominant role to be really powerful and exciting. And the reverse is true. People who are always in control and always making decisions, they can really love the opportunity to give that all up.

[22:29] Wes: And finally just be so therapeutic if done right, obviously, because I mean, kink done wrong could be harmful. Which part of the whole racks and lakers talking about. We always want to be careful, but if done well and done with people you trust and you know, it can be very therapeutic. If you're someone who's very shy, being a dom pulls you out of that shell so fast and so hard, it really helps. I know people who practice Kink as a form of trauma therapy, not to replace a therapist, because never, always see a therapist regardless, but they use it as a side of trauma release through kink, where they'll use a Kink scene to kind of take control of these situations that have been plaguing them their whole life.

[23:19] Karin: Yeah, and that's one of the things that I think is so amazing about Kink is that it really can help to heal some people's trauma. And there are a lot of know sex therapists like Ian Kerner, some people might be familiar with him who talk about that it's a real thing. And one of the things that got me more interested in learning more about.

[23:44] Wes: It I will say for any of your listeners who are thinking about maybe trying Kink as a therapeutic action, don't just jump into it, talk to somebody who understands. But there are local Kinksters all over the place. There are some that are very highly, highly educated, highly, highly knowledgeable. Talk to somebody, reach out to me. If I can't help you, I can find someone that can find people who understand and can help you do it the proper way. Because again, as helpful as it can be, if it's not done right, it can also cause a lot more damage.

[24:18] Karin: Yeah, that's really important. Thank you for that. What are some of the other benefits of Kink?

[24:25] Wes: Freedom. I think for me it's a lot to do with freedom of body, freedom of self. There's a lot of pleasure involved. I will say before me and my husband experience started playing in the Kink world, we were happy, we had a great we've been together now, we've been married for eleven years together, I think twelve or 13 and we did about ten of those years as a very monogamous couple. About halfway through that we started to kind of play with Kink. We had a great relationship beforehand, but I feel afterwards we kind of became more, became better, it became stronger and then last year we actually opened our relationship. So now we consider some folly and we are dating, we are seeing other people and it brought us closer, like we have become a better couple, a stronger couple because of it. And I'm not saying it's for everybody, not everyone should do it, not everyone can do it and that's okay. But for my experience and again, when we did it, just so people know, we got a therapist before we did it because we want to make sure we weren't going to mess us up. So we went towards couples therapy and we're still in couples therapy because of it, because we want to make sure we're not hurting each other while we do this. But with the communication we become stronger. And I think for a lot of people it's freeing, it's relieving because just like being a queer person finally coming out, officially coming out and saying you're queer, it's such a weight off your shoulders. So if you're like a Kings or you think you might be and accepting that part of you, it's like a weight off your shoulders. And then you find a community of people who are just like you that will embrace you and will bring you into their fold, it makes things so much better. I have so many friends in the King community that I've met and funny thing is, most of my King friends, I don't know their kinks because we don't talk kinks. We talk cats and we talk our dogs and we talk Star Trek. That's not about the topic of conversation, but it's about being around people who get you and who understand you and aren't going to judge.

[26:54] Karin: It sounds like a pretty great community to be a part of.

[26:58] Wes: There are some bad seats just like any community, but for the most part, sure, if you find some good people, it's an amazing community to be a part of.

[27:08] Karin: So how do people find a kink community if they're interested in learning more?

[27:14] Wes: The easiest way and the most common way is there's a website called Fetlife. Setlife.com. It is the oldest, longest running kink website and people will go on there, they'll post events, they'll post conventions, they'll post get togethers. You can reach out to meet people, talk to people with the similar kinks, talk to people with different kinks, you can ask questions, you can reach out to people to ask questions. It's probably the easiest way to do it and you can go on there and just say, I'm in such and such state, show me all the events happening next month and it'll give you a list of all of the events that are happening within the next month or two months or three months or whatever. And other than that, there's dating apps that are helpful at least. I can't really speak for the female side of things, but I know for men there's a dating app called Recon, which is a Kink themed dating app. It's for kinksters. It's a good way to kind of reach out and meet fellow Kings and there's a lot of people on there. There's a lot of people on there that I see that are like, I'm very new to this and I'm still learning. So it is a good way to kind of get yourself out there. And again, if you find somebody who understands, they're not going to just throw you in the deep end and tie you up and spank you till you're crying. They're going to take you slow, they're going to slowly work with you to kind of bring you into it and find out what it is you do like and what it is you don't like and kind of work with you. I've talked to a couple of guys about it myself and I've tried to help them through a couple of things. There are ways and there are things called munches, which is basically get together. Kinkster get togethers, which is again, we don't talk about kink. It's just getting together as a group and just kind of having conversations and hanging out with fellow kinksters, again, who understand us. And again, you can find those on FetLife and they happen all over the place. So there's many ways to find them. There's many ways to find and there are so many online conventions as well. You can go to a convention to learn about kink that way because they have a bunch of classes and meet people there too.

[29:23] Karin: And as you're saying these things, I'm thinking about local sex shops. Like, we have a great one. It's really for anyone, but it's particularly for women called She-Bop in the Portland area. And I would imagine, because I know that they advertise lots of classes and things, that they would probably have information about how to connect with the community.

[29:47] Wes: Most of the sex shops sell kinky things so they're going to be very plugged know in Boston we have two we have good Vibes which is also in San Francisco and we have this one called Hubba Hubba. Again. You're right. It's like you go in there and you can say, hey, I'm kind of new to this. Can you help me find something? Find someone? They'll be happy to point you in the right direction.

[30:08] Karin: And I know that a lot of you listening might think, oh, there's no way I could go into one of those jobs. But I tell you, this is what they do. And I think they're really good at making people feel as comfortable as possible. This is like normal life. They have these conversations all the time and they're there to help you learn about this stuff. So I recommend it if you have any interest in doing it so much better now.

[30:35] Wes: I remember when I was younger, they were seedy, they were really gross. But now they're comfortable, they're relaxed, they're knowledgeable, they're friendly again. They're never going to judge you. You can tell them anything you want to do, and they're fine with it. Because not only is it their job, but it's also probably their lifestyle as well. So they get it and they're there to help you.

[31:04] Karin: Yeah, you don't have to worry about them snickering once you walk out the.

[31:07] Wes: Door not at all.

[31:11] Karin: Yeah, they're pretty great. So I want to also talk a little bit about consent and negotiation and how important those things, the roles that.

[31:24] Wes: They play probably more important than the actual scene itself in my opinion. If you don't have. Consent, you don't have a scene. If you don't have consent, you don't have anything. Because there's a difference between a consensual scene and an abusive relationship and that entails the consent. I can spank you if I don't have the consent. I'm now hitting you and I'm harming you unintentionally against your will, and that's wrong. But if I'm spanking you with your consent, it's a very different thing. And negotiation is just as important because this is why I try to tell people that even in the vanilla world, you should negotiate because the point of the negotiation is to set the standards, set the limits. We talk about what we're going to do. We talk about what we're not going to do. And anything outside of what we've agreed on is off limits. So if you negotiate a scene and you get into a scene and halfway through a scene, you say, you know, I really like to do this. No, because when you're in a scene, when you're in the sexual act, everyone knows your brain chemicals work differently, your body reacts to things differently, your pain receptors are different. So it's like, yeah, maybe you like being spanked and maybe halfway through you're saying, do go harder, go harder, go harder. But that's not the right time to do that because your brain may tell you you can take more, but later on your body's going to hate you because it was too much. You got to make decisions, sometimes rash decision in the heat of a moment, we've all done it. So that's why you should always negotiate beforehand. One, you don't want to do something you're going to regret when you're done. And two, you don't want to do something that you're not completely comfortable with. It is a lot easier to manipulate or conjole somebody in the moment than it is beforehand when you're both of sound mind and discussing, yeah, that makes.

[33:25] Karin: A lot of sense. Yeah. And it also makes a lot of sense that people more in the vanilla sex world could also benefit from that, where you see so many things go wrong in sexual relationships or of course, any relationship dated.

[33:43] Wes: We've all had those nights where you meet somebody, get to know them, you bring them home, you have a fun night in the bedroom and you're doing things based off of what you think they may or may not like, but you don't know and you may do something they don't like and it ruins the moment. What's the harm of taking make it part of the foreplay, the dirty talk like, hey, what do you like? What do you want to do? What are you into? Oh yeah, you like that? Oh, how about if I tried this? Make it part of the scene, make it part of the game. And then you have understanding of what that person likes because you don't know. And I've talked to people about this. I have people that I know that don't do oral because it's a triggering thing from a trauma. If you just start to go down on them, they're done. And if you don't discuss that ahead of time, you don't know that and you can ruin a beautiful encounter. So how bad is it just to have a conversation beforehand and say, hey, let's talk about this. We can be sexy about it. And honestly, you start talking about sex, it's going to get you kind of in the mood.

[34:53] Karin: Let's be real, right? It can be a great way to build anticipation.

[34:58] Wes: You have dinner, you talk around dessert time, you start talking sexy. So by the time you get home, you're ready, you're ready to go.

[35:06] Karin: Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. You had mentioned to me before we hit record something about impact play. Tell us a little bit about what that is.

[35:17] Wes: One form of kink, impact Play is kind of what a lot of the examples I've been basing, it's basically spankings it's, hitting, it's like concussive play. So whips, chains, paddles, floggers your hands, slapping, spanking, all that stuff is considered impact play, and it's probably one of the more popular kinks out there. It's probably one of the most popular kinks in the vanilla world because again, who doesn't spank an ass once in a while? Impact play basically encompasses all of that and everybody practices kink differently. So your version of impact play is not the same as mom. And again, that's where conversation comes in. But yeah, it's basically about the hitting or the spanking or the rough contact, basically.

[36:16] Karin: So do you have any book recommendations or blogs or any other resources that people can go to if they just want to start dipping their toe, but they might be a little bit nervous about talking to someone, they're not quite ready to go?

[36:32] Wes: Really good book. So yeah, there's one really good book that I think everybody should read. I will say by the title. It's kind of one of those books that you're not going to want to go to Barnes and Nobles and hand to the Catholics because it's going to.

[36:44] Karin: Make you uncomfortable and ask them, do.

[36:47] Wes: You have so the book is called The Ethical Slut. It's written by Dossie Easton and Janet Hardy. It is probably one of the best books on basic BDSM, kink and all that stuff. It's an amazing read. It's designed in a way to make it very understandable. Jenna Hardy, she's been a Kinkster her whole life. Her children were brought up in the Kink community. So I think they've even written like I don't know if it's a children's book, but there's like a picture book or something of Kink that she wrote with her kids or some sort. No, I'm sorry. She has an online blog that she writes with her kids. That's what it mean? Adult kids?

[37:28] Karin: Of course, adult kids.

[37:29] Wes: They're not much older. I would say if you're going to start anywhere, that's probably one of the best places to start. Another good author, just overall is this writer. Her name is Midori. She's a Kinkster. She writes a lot of books. She does a lot of cons and a lot of classes at cons and she teaches a lot. She's amazingly knowledgeable. She's a great artist and a huge well known kinkster in the community. She's written dozens of books that are all various levels. She's also another good one to reach out to. But if you're going to start at one place, I would definitely start with the ethical floor.

[38:08] Karin: I actually think I have it on my Kindle. I don't think I've read it yet. I mean, I know I haven't read it yet, but it's a good one. Yeah, that's great. Okay, what's one thing you'd really like people to walk away with after listening to this conversation?

[38:20] Wes: I think the one thing that I try to push on people, but the one thing I try to instill on people and the one thing that if I can get you comfortable with, then I did my job, is understanding that no matter what, you're not weird. You're normal, you're okay. There's nothing wrong with you. Love is love is love. However you experience it, feel it, or perform it, it is okay. And you are not a weirdo because you want to do it a little differently than somebody else. You're just as valid as they are, and you should embrace that. And the sooner we can embrace that, the sooner we can, in my opinion, the sooner we can embrace ourselves more and be more comfortable in our own skin.

[39:09] Karin: I appreciate that so much. And I appreciate it because it's so important that we grow comfortable being our authentic selves, or else we're really shutting down important parts.

[39:25] Wes: You may try it and not like it and realize you are a very vanilla person. And that's okay. Nothing wrong with that too. As long as you're doing what you want to do to your fullest extent and you're happy, you're okay.

[39:39] Karin: Yeah. And what role does love play in the work that you do?

[39:45] Wes: I mean, as a relationship coach, I like to think it plays a huge role because I like to work with people who are mostly couples or triples or multiples people who are in relationships, who are heavy in my relationships, that have an affection myself. When I play, I like to get to know people and form relationships before I play. So for me, it's everything, and it doesn't have to be everything. You can have your no strings attached, one night stands, friends with benefits, whatever you want to do again, it's all okay. But for me, the way I practice kink, the way I kind of work with my clients, for the most part, it is part of it. I'll work with people who don't want to include the relationship or the emotional and that's fine, too. But for the most part, that's at least how I like to practice myself.

[40:40] Karin: And how can people learn more about you and about working with you?

[40:44] Wes: It's Wesleytoma.com. You can go there. You can learn a little bit about me, what I do. You can book a free discovery session with me. We can have our first session, talk, and then we can kind of go from there, see if we mesh and yeah, that's probably the easiest way to reach me.

[41:03] Karin: This has been a great conversation. I really appreciate you sharing all this information with us. Thank you.

Outro

[50:52] Karin: Thanks for joining us today on Love Is Us. If you liked the show, I would so appreciate it if you left me a review. If you have questions and would like to follow me on social media, you can find me on Instagram, where I'm The Love and Connection Coach. Special thanks to Tim Gorman for my music, Aly Shaw for my artwork, and Ross Burdick for tech and editing assistance. Again, I'm so glad you joined us today, because the best way to bring more love into your life and into the world is to be love. The best way to be love is to love yourself and those around you. Let's learn and be inspired together.